Family Ties: Stories That Inspire

[0:03] Natalie Saldarriaga: Please introduce yourself. Tell us your name and where you’re from. 

[0:08] Claudia Portillo: Sure, my name is Claudia Portillo and I am from Los Angeles, California. This is where I was born and raised. 

[0:18] Natalie: And, how would you describe your cultural background?

[0:23] Claudia: The best way to describe my cultural background is I guess a little bit of the bi-cultural. I’m Salvadorian-American, right. Um, I was… like I said I was born in Los Angeles and at home we spoke Spanish and practiced our culture through, you know, through memory or cooking. You know, sometimes I think food describes your culture. Sadly my parents don’t know how to cook pupusas, which is one of our favorite dishes. Uh, but I would say that our… When it comes to food we are more inventive than we are traditional. But yeah definitely bi-cultural.

[1:14] Natalie: Okay, and who is this story about and what relation do they have to you?

[1:19] Claudia: Sure, this story is about Roberto Wolff and this is the story about my great-grandfather, on the paternal side of my father’s side. 

[1:30] Natalie: Okay and were you ever able to meet your grandfather… your great-grandfather? 

[1:37] Claudia: No, no he is definitely before my time [laughs]. 

[1:44] Natalie: Okay, and who told you this story about him? 

[1:48] Claudia: Um, different family members would tell me a little bit here and there from time to time, um, who he was. Nobody ever necessarily sat me down to tell me about him. Just little things here and there. Throughout the years. 

[2:03] Natalie: Alright, so if you’re ready go ahead and tell the story. 

[2:07] Claudia: Sure, sure. And I guess I will add to that. 

[2:10] Natalie: Yeah. 

[2:11] Claudia: The other way I learned about my great-grandfather was through Ancestry research. 

[2:16] Natalie: Okay. So you researching online?

[2:18] Claudia: Yes, yes. 

[2:20] Natalie: Okay. Alright, great. 

[2:23] Claudia: So, one of the things I wanted to say right before about the story is that I think my great-grandfather’s story is a great example of what makes Central-American heritage both extremely rich, diverse, and at the same time complex. And you’ll understand why when I tell you the story. Uh, so my great-grandfather’s name was Roberto Wolff he was born in Zacatecoluca, El Salvador in 1897. His parents were Henri and Lucie Wolff   and they were originally from Paris, France. He had two siblings Maurice and Marguerite. Robert Wolff’s daughter was my grandmother Rosa Emma Durán, uh, on my father’s side like I said. She was my paternal grandmother born in 1914 in also in Zacatecoluca. Um, he did not raise her, but he did look for her in the 1960’s. He started to look for her in the 1960’s. And, eventually they did, they came in contact and my grandmother finally corresponded with him in 1967. I’m going to drink some water. So, like I said, you know, from time to time I heard about his story. I would hear things like, “You know you have Jewish roots,” or, “Your great-grandfather was French.” Um, in my teens I didn’t exactly, you know, inquire much further about this, but when I did I was about seventeen when I went to visit my grandmother in El Salvador. It was 1989. And one of the most striking and painful things that happened with her was that there were only two things that she remembered, right. So she had full blown Alzheimer’s. She could not remember her children’s names. She definitely couldn’t remember her grandchildren at the time she didn’t have… oh no she had a few, but my sister and I were the oldest. And, um, only two things that she like would remember from back then, right. And that was that her husband but she would only call him “el”. So she would refer to him as “el”. So she would say things like… what would she say? Oh, “Ya comió el?” she would ask around, “Ya comió el?”, “Dónde está él?” So she, you know, worried about him. She still as the wife, you know, she would still, you know, it’s late, “Donde esta?” like she would worry about him, so my grandfather was referred to as “el”. And then the other person, who’s somebody she never met, she would say to me, “You know I have a father, he loves me, he writes to me, he didn’t forget me.” It still touches me today. Um, I think it was that, that longing of hers that was obvious it struck me and I think I just vowed to look for him to see what I could find. And of course my grandmother passed away and of course he was passed away, but I don’t know. I took that on. Right, I took that on. So then another thing that happened on that trip which was, you know, you and I have discussed these things before about,you know, passing on the heritage or the heirlooms in a way, you know, and for me was that my grandfather David, who was her husband, um, gave us and I would love to show this to you because it’s one of my biggest treasures. It’s this green vintage picture, uh, photo box. And it’s falling apart as you can see, but in here it contained like all their pictures, all their photographs. And that’s what has helped me to confirm some stories and to research. 

[6:38] Natalie: Wow.

[6:39] Claudia: I know. It was, it was just something else but again at seventeen it was like, it was great I loved it but it took me still a few more years to start really getting into this story. 

[6:52] Natalie: So you’re pretty young when he gave the box to you? 

[6:57] Claudia: Yes, yes. My grandparents… I love that he has the foresight to give it to my sister and I. I think it could have stayed in El Salvador and I don’t know if my other cousins would have done what I’ve done, you know, with all of it because I really I have, you know, we talk about uncovering stories and oh, there were tons in there [laughs]. 

[7:19] Natalie: Woah.

[7:20] Claudia: There were tons in there, and you know, historically it also helps keep writing our narrative. So, then I’ll talk a little bit about the letter which I’ll pass on to you, uh, little bits about that. My uncle, Roberto, had saved… oh I’m going to get mixed-up. My uncle, my father’s brother is also named Roberto. 

[7:47] Natalie: Okay. 

[7:48] Claudia: I didn’t think of that [until] right now. But yeah. So my uncle had saved one of the letters that were exchanged between my great-grandfather and my grandmother. And my Aunt Silvia  which is my great… my grandmother’s niece, she’s one of those that told me bits and pieces of the story. So, right, so my Aunt Silvia told me how when this one time that she was in Zacatecoluca she was, you know, visiting. They were already in San Salvador but she was visiting Zacatecoluca, a man actually recognized her and said, “Hey, you guys have letters, unclaimed letters from France at the post office.” And so she was like, “Oh okay.” And you know she kinda knew… she knew the story. So she ran over there and sure enough there were a few letters that were unopened, unclaimed that were meant for my grandmother. And when my grandmother opened them of course they were from her father. And he had been trying… the whole story is he had been trying to look for her in the 60’s is when he went back to look for her. Um, and that’s when that correspondence began and so I’ll read to you. I’m so glad I found this part, right. I’ll read to you one of the lines that explains what happened. “Forgive me my daughter for not taking responsibility of you,” by the way this was in Spanish, he wrote her in Spanish, “my life has been so tumultuous. Well, I took my parent’s nationality. At age eighteen I was in the war of 14’ and 18’,” World War I, ” and the other one from 39’ to 45’,” obviously World War II. “Those wars have been difficult for me.” And that’s one of the lines that he’s trying to explain to her why he couldn’t… why he didn’t come back to her. So, this Jewish family, the Wolff’s had come to El Salvador like many other Jewish families and many other European families, right. At the turn of… like actually in the mid to late 1800’s a lot of European families moved to Central America, actually right. It was… it was to build their fortunes, right. It was another… another author has described it as another time that, you know, we were colonized, right, because there was a lot of foreigners that had some into our countries. And, um, Americans, you know, we know that part of history right as well. So, this Jewish family was definitely had come, they opened up a store in Zacatecoluca and they had domestic help in their home, right. And that’s how the Wolff and the Durán family came to be, right, classic story. Um, again my aunt told me the story where Robert Wolff got involved with my great-grandmother. Her name was Arcadia Durán. And her and her sister Mercedes used to cook for the Jewish family and Arcadia became pregnant um, with my grandmother and Robert Wolff was actually sent away to France. So that’s why he kind of, he talks about he was in the wars, right, because they actually even though they were this whole time, you know, he was born in Zacatecoluca when he became a father they’re like, “Oh yeah, no you’re going back to France.” So I want to show you the picture, this is um, my grandmother. There I think that’s better. 

[12:03] Natalie: Yeah.

[12:03] That’s my grandmother, Rosa. And then who we are talking about right now is this is my grandmother’s mother, Arcadia and this is him. This is Robert Wolff. This is him in his, um, uniform… 

[12:17] Natalie: Wow. 

[12:18] Claudia: …this is World War I uniform. And again like those were the kind of pictures that were in my little green vintage photobox that I had to have family help me decipher like, “Hey, who’s this guy? And they’re like, “Oh that’s Robert Wolff. That’s the dad.” So, those were the gems in there. Um, yeah let me… go back here. So, with my research… oh the letter right. So, the letter contained some other things, uh, when he talked about his sibling, one of his siblings, and he says, “And worst of all my brother Mauricio his…” and his entire… it sounds like he’s going to say his entire family, right but he crosses it out. He crosses out that little part the “entire” and “… his wife, his daughter, and his mother-in-law were hoarded by the Germans and I never heard any news from them again. My mother died a little after that and that was a great loss for me.” He’s explaining to her. Um, so again at the time like when I first read this letter the lines didn’t mean anything to me. Other than, you know, I was like, “this sounds like the Holocaust.” Right, like this is “deported”, “by the Germans”, right like this sounds like the Holocaust to me. Um, and later when I really started to research it I was like oh yeah that the language. That’s all the things that had happened um , when they went back to France. So, that why I began my research outside of certain things, right and I, um, I remember the night I found his family on the list of Holocaust victims just like he had mentioned. Um, I had found his daughter, his daughter’s name. Um, his mother-in-law and his wife’s name all on the, you know, the list of the Holocaust. There’s a place called The Memorial de la Shoah in France and it’s the Holocaust, I don’t know if you’ve had the chance to go there, maybe now that you’re on that side you can go over there one day. But yeah, so they have all the information there and throughout the years…This was… I actually discovered them I believe in 2009 I want to say or 2010. And it’s been beautiful because over the years they’ve added more pictures of that family and I’ve been able to see… 

[15:12] Natalie: Wow. 

[15:12] Claudia:… pictures of that family. And I have one and I shared it with them in 2009. As soon as I saw that there were no pictures of that family. I scanned it and I sent it to The Mémorial de la Shoah and something happened was that the one of the archivist there wrote back to me. And she was so excited and she wrote this big old long e-mail and she was explaining to me that just like he had written where he had left out “entire family” he crosses it out in the letter. She said “Mauricio’s entire family was not murdered. Their little boy Henri survived.” And Henri was born in 1935 and went by the last name of  Bécard  so he had been, somebody had adopted him or I have no idea what… how this would come to be. I don’t know why he wasn’t taken back to the family. I really don’t know that story and it is definitely something I want to do and I wanna fulfill that. But according to the archivist when I reached out to the museum they had gone to visit this Henri because he had just turned in passport photos of his parents, of Henri… of Mauricio and Léonie. So he himself had gone to the museum and just turned in passports. She was like, “Oh my god! Here’s another family.” Even though, we are illegitimate family, right. We’re the ones, outsiders. Um, but she went back and she told me she went to visit to the address he had given. Oh, he had given them the address in 2001 so it had been quite a few years um, and the neighbors confirmed that he already had passed away a year before… 

[17:09] Natalie: Wow. 

[17:10] Claudia: …they went to reach him. So I was like, you know, “Ugh! Another just missed… just missed this.” So, I did what I could at that point. Finally my pictures, the pictures that I put the Mémorial de la Shoah are on there. And I’ve been researching my great-grandfather, more of his story, of you know he obviously survived, um, and he did not forget his daughter. Um, and that was it. That’s all there is to that story, so far. Like I said, I know I’m gonna keep going [laughs].

[17:57] Natalie: Yeah. How interesting and how like beautiful but also sad at the same time. 

[18:04] Claudia: Yes.

[18:05] So… wow. I do have a few questions I wanted to clarify. 

[18:10] Claudia: Yes, sure. 

[18:10] Natalie: I maybe got lost along the way. So, from what I understand is that when your great-grandfather, when he, Roberto when he had your grandmother, his parents sent him away to France, well to the war? 

[18:28] Claudia: Yeah, to France. 

[18:29] Natalie: To France.  

[18:29] To France. I don’t think they anticipated him to be fighting in the war. I don’t think… I mean… 

[18:39] Natalie: Okay. It’s like uh, he was sent back to France, did he ever go back and forth to see his parents? 

[18:48] Claudia: So, no his parents also… everybody moved back by the 1920’s. Everybody had moved back to… was it by the twenties? In the twenties everybody seemed to have moved back. That’s at least, the parents had. Marguerite Wolff, his younger sister, is the only one that stayed in El Salvador. She married the Schwartz family of El Salvador. My family I think when this was happening because my dad remembers Marguerite. So, they met again. They reunited the whole, you know, they met, they talked, you know whatever. And I believe this must of all happened in the sixties, in 67’. Uh, where they reconnected again in El Salvador, but um they were older by then, the Wolff side of the family were older and so like you know Roberto he never really was able to come back and visit my grandmother. They never saw each other.

[19:54] Natalie: Okay.

[19:54] Claudia: They just corresponded.

[19:55] Natalie: That was my next question. So they never met in person? It was all correspondence? 

[19:59] Claudia: Correct. And actually I forgot, this is the portrait that came out of that in 67’ if can… 

[20:06] Natalie: Yeah.

[20:06] Claudia: So, my grandmother, my grandfather, and her four sons in that picture. Um, this is my father and that picture was taken to send to him. So that picture itself is somewhere in France [laughs]. 

[20:22] Natalie: Woah, okay. So did, um, if she took a picture that means that they had more letters that they sent to each other? 

[20:32] Claudia: There were definitely more but you know, my uncle only was able to, and I’m just so grateful that he saved one. He was only able to save one. And that one only said that my great-grandfather was in the city of Malaucène, France at that time in 67’. They were not in Paris anymore it seemed. They were in Malaucène, um I’’m probably saying it wrong. I have no idea how to pronounce that word, but they didn’t, you know, it didn’t have an address and I’ve oh trust me, I’ve looked and searched. I just have to make my way back to France one day and do all that research again. 

[21:16] Natalie: And, um, I know you said you were pretty young and maybe you didn’t at the moment, you were told the story, really understand what it meant, but do you remember your initial reaction? Or maybe when you put the pieces of the puzzle together how it felt initially? 

[21:33] Claudia: Um, I mean, I was confused you know cause I had known my grandmother had when she was growing up, it was difficult, they were poor. It was all women, you know, raising each other, helping each other throughout, um, they, you know, it was an extremely, resilient group of women and it’s you know, I am so proud of them, for what they overcame. My grandmother and her sister Tia Fema  raising, you know, all the children and they all became professionals, everything and it’s just incredible right, what they overcame. So it was a little bit like daunting like oh, you know and they were you know this family the Wolff family was at the time there, well connected… but that is the… I don’t judge but I understand that when you read history and if you remove yourself from the personal, that is how society worked right at that time. And you know  it does sometimes it still does, it’s a little bit better now but still, you know, if that, those things happened and not all families did that right? But this one did. This one separated them and it definitely did not have them become a couple. So, they were young too. He was really young too. So, it just um… that’s what happened. It was a little daunting to know that she could have been helped out. And they could have maybe educated her or, you know, things like that. But I don’t know all the details either, you know. 

[23:24] Natalie: What does this story mean to you now? In your life? 

[23:30] Claudia: Yeah, it just means so much. It explains a lot of the history of El Salvador, the history of Central America. Um, the different forms of colonization that we’ve endured. The resilience. Again, again, just how much I value right, I think um, one of the things here that I wanted to add about that I feel is beautiful about these projects that we’re working on to recover these stories is that you know, again we hear the thing representation matters. These types of stories in mainstream, of course they’re invisible, in mainstream they’re just not heard of. Um, but it’s also our own people that undervalue our histories. And we haven’t seen the value to share them. And I think that little by little the more that you know voices come out, um, people will be like, “Oh yeah I have a story similar to that, we did this and we did that.” One of the things that I am trying to capture or recapture is our traditions. You know, I know in mine, they were… of course we’re diaspora, right, we’re not going to have full… there’s a lot we lose by leaving or by being forced out, right. There’s a lot we lose by that so I’m just hoping that people understand that we come from an extremely rich and diverse culture in Central America. And we need to recuperate a lot, alot. 

[25:09] Natalie: I agree, yeah exactly. Um, do you think family histories, family stories are important and if so, why? 

[25:20] Claudia: For the same reason, um because we can share that with our children. In my case I am not… I don’t have children, but I have nieces and nephews that are actually themselves are now mixed-race and so the Salvadorian side is… you know we don’t have a huge family, Salvadorian family either so we’re just shrinking and shrinking. And I think that it’s important to pass these little stories along and so that we are not forgotten. And our ancestors are not forgotten because when you reflect on it  and like my life is nothing compared to what they endured. So, I appreciate it, I do. 

[26:10] Natalie: Yeah, that’s a good… that’s a different perspective I hadn’t thought about. I’ve usually focused on preservation but it also like enriches your own life when you get to reflect on what you come from. 

[26:21] Claudia: Right. Right. Right. You’re grateful there’s gratitude. You know, you definitely learn that. You definitely learn that.

[26:29] Natalie: Yeah, and strength too. Like if they could go through that… 

[26:32] Claudia: Yeah! 

[26:32] …then I could go through what I need to as well.

[26:34] Claudia: I say it all the time. I say it I’m like, “this is nothing compared to what my great grandparents, you know or what they endured.” I’m like “ I can do this, I can get through this.” Yeah, it’s great therapy [laughs]. 

[26:48] Natalie: [laughs] Yeah. Uh, let’s see… yes… in what ways do you or don’t you see yourself reflected in history? 

[27:03] Claudia: Um, in what ways… do you wanna explain a little bit more maybe what…

[27:09] Natalie: Yeah, like maybe growing up, going to school… 

[27:17] Claudia: Oh! Sure.

[27:17] Natalie:..or when you were younger, or even now… do you see yourself, your story, reflected in history in telling or retelling of history?

[27:25] Claudia: So, you know, like this one in particular, you think about we learn about the Holocaust, you know, all the time and I am grateful that I did.  I was definitely raised in that knowing the stories of Anne Frank and just everything that has to do with the Holocaust and um, and of course growing up and learning I had no idea that I actually had a personal connection to that. And was personally affected by that, right. My grandmother’s pain was real. There was a sadness to her growing up. I used to visit her in the 70’s, you know. And so, you know, we’re not expected, people don’t connect Central America with Jewish families or the Holocaust or anything like that so, it[‘s] definitely not reflected in that sense, right. The Holocaust yes, but not us as Central Americans. We are not reflected in that sense in history. So, no of course not. I think it’s slowly we’re starting to come out and it is up to us to make this this happen. It is up to us to have our voices be heard. Nobody else is going to tell our story the way we’re telling the stories. 

[28:54] Natalie: Exactly. And do you think history is accessible to everyone?

[29:01] Claudia: No, no. Not really. Um, yeah no. We see it all the time, especially these years where books are being banned and you know that poverty can really take away access to the internet. You know, limit your access to the internet. Um, and so, so no not everybody has access to histories and um, you know history in Central America is known to be written in… by the victor. Right, history is written by the victor and um, in that there was a lot of dictatorships and that were a lot of um, journalist and writers that were you know government, government sponsored so a lot of our history is written only in one from one perspective so that’s another way that we’ve you know, don’t have access to history. But we’ve been, you know, Central America has been pushing a lot and gained a lot… there’s been a lot of gaining of our histories and from different perspectives now and I think that that’s slowly coming up. 

[30:24] Natalie: And, you who have researched a lot about your family, has that been something easy for you to do? Has it been difficult to find information? Is it easier to find information from one part of your family than the other part of your family? 

[30:40] Claudia: You know, it is. It’s hours and countless of time that I spent. Again, I don’t have children so I am able [laughs] to do it. And it is a passion and now I’ve made it, you know, I’m almost at one-hundred per[cent], I’m almost there. I am almost there to making it with the CAHAAS organization and stuff like that. I’m almost at a hundred percent spending my time on it. But, for all these years that I’ve been researching it is… the beautiful thing about the Jewish tradition is that they’re, they write a lot, they save a lot of their information and write a lot about their family trees. And so, I was able to find so much information about them. Um, so that was an easier, I guess, it still was hard. But it was, you know, I was able to find a lot of information, so I have great-great-great grandparents in that… from that branch. The indigenous side is very hard to find because everything was taken away, right. Everything was eliminated and they practiced a lot of oral history versus written history. So, but not to say that I haven’t found things and you just have to keep searching. You have to be inventive in your research. Um, and you have to ask family members for you know, I did ask questions. Or and I also retained… I retained a lot of the little things they would say. It just… you know, I would keep it somewhere in the back of my head and then like remember and then I’m like, “Yeah! They said this,” or “They said this city.” You know, so that’s how I’ve developed all that research. 

[32:37] Natalie: Uh, is there any part of your culture that you’d like to learn more about? 

[32:43] Claudia: Um, definitely the indigenous side for me is extremely important and um, and I think there’s a lot more research happening in El Salvador in particular. Um, that is helping us learn more about um, our indigenous side. So, um, culturally like in just in terms of like food or anything like that… um, yeah no. I think I feel good in that sense. Like I’m happy with what I have and we celebrate that as much as we can and um, I think it’s the historical side that is the most important to me in piecing together.

[33:41] Natalie: Is there another member of your family, who you’re like ready to start researching more about? 

[33:47] Claudia: Oh god. There’s so many. Um, and I have that I have researched but yes there’s… So I did share with you that I found my African roots because we did take our DNA test and we have the… what seems to be like the almost the majority of Central Americans I would say, you know, they have half indigenous, half European, and then we have the African roots in us. And, that’s again you know sadly it’s the slave trade happening, colonization happening, um, and definitely our blood represents that. In my case we had fourteen percent Ashkenazi blood, right. Because of my Jewish side of the family. So, I am dying to find out, like where from Africa. Even though it says it there, there’s quite a bit of different areas of Africa that we’re from. But, because I found the name of my African… you know he was already mixed himself. Um, that um, you know I still want to go deeper into that, you know. Like I mentioned or I said it was… I really didn’t think I would ever find a name connected to the African side because everything that’s been told is that it’s impossible. It’s just so hard, right? Because they were, you know, but I did! I did! I’m such a… an investigator that I was able to find it. I want to dig there. I want to dig indigenous. I wanna know the Spanish side, the name… his name… Guadlupe, Joseph Guadalupe Jimenez was married to, her name was, Juana… I can’t her… her middle name it was such a Potenciana.. Or something like that. I can’t pronounce it actually. But she was the Spanish one. She was from Spain. They said she was española so I was like… Oh! And at the same time I found him I found her in a way, you know. And so I wanna know what that was like. You know, how did they come? Why did they come? Um, you know. That was hard… back… it had to have been. Well, for him I’m sure it was a nightmare, but for her like… you know. Spain, you know, it just had its wars and so I wanna know what happened. You know, so yeah. I have more to dig. 

[36:46] Natalie: It’s like you find answers and then you have more questions [laughs].

[36:49] Claudia: Oh absolutely! Absolutely! It’s you know, yeah. 

[36:55] Natalie: Do you think you like, um, I don’t know. So that maybe someday someone, or your family members can have you preserved. Like do you… since you’ve had your experience in trying to find family members, do you think you look at your own possessions or your work or your life, and you try to make it like more searchable [laughs]?

[37:19] Claudia: Yes, yes. So, um, like what I do with CAHAAS? Like? 

[37:25] Natalie: Yeah! That too yeah. 

[37:26] Claudia: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean I want to make it more searchable. I want to share it. Um, I write about it. I do what I can to put it out there and to share and disseminate this information. Absolutely. I don’t know if I told you but Ancestry.com chose me for National Hispanic Heritage Month

[37:52] Natalie: Oh! 

[37:52] Claudia: It’s such a long word…

[37:53] Natalie: [laughs]         

[37:54] Claudia: …but [laughs] Is it, National Hispanic Heritage Month, yeah. Um, and they… I just was interviewed yesterday… 

[38:02] Natalie: Wow! Congrats! 

[38:03] Claudia: for that. I am sharing a different story… 

[38:06] Natalie: Okay.

[38:07] Claudia: …with them. About tía Amalia on my mother’s side. So, tía Amalia is on my mother’s side. Um, and I’m sharing a story with them about her. And so, yeah I absolutely do what I can to tell these stories to tell the people who we are. You know, all the sides to our Central American people. I definitely am trying to do that. 

[38:32] Natalie: Um, do you think people are becoming more interested or aware of their culture and their history? 

[38:41] Claudia: Absolutely, absolutely. I’m not the only family historian in my family, right? I have my cousin Charlie. Um, my aunts have helped me. My uncle, you know, I definitely… you know, that comes from them. They look as well or they’re interested as well. Um, and I see what you’re doing which totally, I’m like Oh! You know! When I started, no it was not out there. It was not out there when I started. You know like I said, now I have been doing this for a while, but yeah I see it. It is happening absolutely. Instagram, social media has exploded that part of it and I’m happy to see that happening, you know. You have to be careful of course, but I am happy to see it happen. 

[39:37] Natalie: Alright, well. I think those are all the questions I have for you today. Thank you so much for sharing that wonderful story. It really… you learn about your family but also about you and who you are. And how much you care to  preserve your culture and care about where you come from and that’s really beautiful. Um, and it’s not like what you just said people are wanting to do that more but it hasn’t always been like that so to talk to someone who has, you know, has been working towards this for a long time, it’s nice how you recount history in such a nice way. 

[40:14] Claudia: Thank you. 

[40:15] Natalie: Is there anything you’d like to add about your family story or anything else you’d like to say? 

[40:21] Claudia: Um, just that you know I tell the story to encourage others. I tell these stories, many of these stories, my family stories. I think that’s where people can start. That’s the start. And we can, I want to encourage a lot of us to become writers. Um, I want us to tell our story, that’s what my organization does, right. CAHAAS.org that’s what we do. We want to encourage people to tell their stories. Raíces, you guys are doing this, you know. Um, so let’s put these platforms out there, so we gather this information, share and disseminate and that’s all. I mean that’s really all I wanna say…. 

[41:06] Natalie: Alright. 

[41:07] Claudia: …about this. I want to encourage people. That’s all. 

[41:10] Natalie: Definitely. Yes, please share your story….

[41:12] Claudia: Yes. 

[41:13] Natalie… um, yeah, take pride in it as well. Cause when you share it you take pride in it. And you take pride in yourself like we spoke about before. It’s a reflection of you and who you are. Who you could be.

[41:23] Claudia: Exactly. Exactly.        

[41:25] Natalie: Okay well thank you so much. 

[41:28] Claudia: Oh, you’re welcome. 

[41:29] Natalie: [laughs]