Family Ties: Stories That Inspire

[0:09] Layla Ahmed: Hi. This is Layla Ahmed. I am currently going to be interviewing Dr. Mohammed Talukder in Paterson, New Jersey. And the date is October 17th, 2021. Ok so if you could introduce who you are, your name, where you’re from, what year you were born. Things like that.

[0:33] Dr. Mohammed Talukder: Well my name is Mohammed A. Talukder. By profession, I am a retired medical surgeon and my granddaughter, Miss Layla Ahmed, came to me. She wants to do—take, interview regarding the immigration process of a person and I’m pleased to respond and I’ll try to answer her question as clearly as possible. You can ask me a question now.

[1:17] Layla: Okay. Thank you. So where are you from? So where were you born?

[1:23] Mohammed: I am residing from Bangladesh about thirty-four years ago, and since then I am staying in America. I am the citizen of United States now and my children get educated here and they’re now doing some decent job also. So I am retired since long and I have been suffering some kind of sickness. That’s why I’m most of the time remain inside house. 

[2:05] Layla: Yeah so where in Bangladesh were you born and what year?

[2:11] Mohammed: I born in Bangladesh—a district called Sylhet—northern part of the country. And I was brought and grown up on my country and I finished my education in my country and the degree I took called MBBS which is Bachelor of Medicine and and Bachelor of Surgery in 1968.

[2:55] Layla: So how old were you then?

[2:58] Mohammed: I was about twenty-seven years old the time I finished my education and then entered into the job, government job. And then I was in charge of a health center they call it. It’s a village-level hospital where I was in charge of this hospital and working in the rural area for more than four years initially. 

[3:35] Layla: So where were you working exactly?

[3:39] Mohammed: I was working in the place called Koithok Hospital. It is situated in the village Koithok near Jawa Bazar under the upazila [county] of Chhatak, Bangladesh. 

[4:05] Layla: Okay. And so how long or until what year did you work there? Did you work there after the war, during the war?

[4:12] Mohammed: I worked there since from the end of the 1968 to 1973.

[4:20] Layla: Right. So in 1971, at the start of 1971 what was your life like?

[4:29] Mohammed: Well it was a type of hectic life because the country was very peaceful the time I entered into the job and then suddenly the freedom movement grown up and people was ready to respond against the West Pakistan. The country was at the time East Pakistan and West Pakistan. The port of the country and in between there was a whole Indian territory so east part of the people has a different culture than the West Pakistan. Eventually the controversy started and then people, the East Pakistan people decide to get separated from the West Pakistan. So there was a non-cooperation time and eventually the freedom war was started in 1971 in March. 

[5:46] Layla: Yeah, so in February what happened of that year in your life?

[5:54] Mohammed: Well February is the month when the peoples were deciding what to do either to stay with West Pakistan as a federal part, West Pakistan—East Pakistan, sorry. Yes. East Pakistan wanted to be, form a federation or a, some of the people are thinking to get full freedom than west part of the country.

[6:30] Layla: Yeah so it seems like a very hectic time.

[6:33] Mohammed: It is, it was.

[6:36] Layla: So I guess my question is for you, did you think the country would break out into war especially when you got married in that month right before the war started?

[6:49] Mohammed: Well incidentally we were married in the month of February 16th and the freedom war started in the month of February—the month of March. And eventually it was very much a hectic time for us because we could not live together. One person was in one part and another person was in another part and we were not able to see each other even because there was a, communication was totally break down. The roads were destroyed, bridges were destroyed so the country was isolated parts by parts in different way so the communication or to make any . . .

[7:56] Shirin Talukder: You had to do your hospital job. 

[7:58] Mohammed: . . .policy was very much hectic because the non-cooperation is a very bad things.

[8:07] Layla: Yeah.

[8:09] Shirin: You had to stay at the hospital. 

[8:10] Layla: So where were you staying during the war? You were at your hospital living there or were you living at home?

[8:18] Mohammed: Yeah I told you before that I enter into the government job.

[8:22] Layla: Right.

[8:23] Mohammed: And I have been doing my government job because it was a vast area where there was no medical facilities at all. And then this hospital was built very recently and I thought that if I leave this place then a lot of people will suffer and I don’t like to. I took my risk and I continued to do my job and I was perfectly doing what I was doing before and the people was getting benefited by me so things are continuing like that.

[9:11] Layla: Yeah. So you were living on the hospital grounds and at this point you were treating both sides of the war? You were treating the West Pakistan Army as well as the Freedom Fighters?

[9:26] Mohammed: Yes as a profession of medical doctor, I have no feelings of for or against. All patients is my patient so whoever coming to me, I used to treat them properly and I did accordingly and even sometimes there was a, some temporary camp in border area between the Pakistan and India. Over there, millions of people was living sheltered over there and they develop cholera disease and I, there was a time that I had to supply some antibiotics, saline, all these things to those people who are suffering over there. So I treat both sides of people. 

[10:30] Layla: And, so how long did this go on?

[10:35] Mohammed: Well basically the war was about nine months war. But after the war is over, the country was taken by the Freedom Fighters, and there was a joining time between the Pakistan and Bangladesh. At that time, whole country in East Pakistan was out of order, and law and order was not functioning. Everybody was having rifle in their hand because they were freedom fighter. And the government, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman [Founding Father of Bangladesh], came back to Bangladesh from West Pakistan. He was unable to control this country especially for health and for food. There is a shortage of health and a shortage of food. And at that time, it was really suffering from the freedom people. 

[11:50] Layla: Yeah so I mean there wasn’t just a war but there was also an ethnic cleansing that was happening too so I guess my question is how did the war and the ethnic cleansing affect your life or what were your experiences with that?

[12:06] Mohammed: Well anytime any country when there is a war especially the freedom war, then it’s really a very suffering for the common people. And it happened to East Pakistan also at the time they called it East Pakistan that army, the majority of the army, why should majority? Hundred percent army, they are from West Pakistan and those who are from East Pakistan, they just leave the job and join in the freedom fighting, freedom fighter. So there was a lot of innocent people died because of the irregular shooting and fighting and many peoples are getting sick and a lot of people, about .3 million men, and women, and children either with arms or without arms, they died. 

[13:32] Layla: Yeah. So what were your experiences with that? What did you see?

[13:38] Mohammed: Well it is a horrible situation really because the people of East Pakistan they’re hundred percent adamant to get separated from the west part of the country and West Pakistan, they were very much adamant also to protect the country than to lose it because according to the West Pakistan people they thinks that India is occupying East Pakistan. Actually, it was not. 

[14:28] Layla: And so after the war, what was the state of the new nation and what was happening in your life at that time after the war ended?

[14:40] Mohammed: Well after the war, there was a heavy loss and damage to the people of East Pakistan, now it is called Bangladesh, because they are the one fighting with the regular army of West Pakistan. Now there was a lot of people died because of the irregular type of firing and some people was dead because the West Pakistan’s regular army. They thoughts that they all minority peoples I mean the Hindu peoples, they are the cause of fighting and then whatever they get them, wherever they get them they used to kill them randomly and then burn their houses also. At the same times, those who are prompted that this house has Muslim but they are supporting the freedom fighters, so they used to burn their house also so financially people was helpless really. They have a heavy loss. 

[16:09] Layla: Yeah. So after the war, I mean, did you move?

[16:17] Mohammed: Me? Myself? Yeah I was in the—the freedom fighting was at the, at a stage going to be over because the president of, the Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi, he was helping by his own army to conquer the war—the freedom war.

[16:49] Layla: She?

[16:50] Mohammed: Yeah, she. And there was a fight for about seven to ten days and then the India occupied the whole East Pakistan and Indian army was in East Pakistan and then the Pakistan army surrendered to the Indian army generally. In this way, the country was occupied and get the freedom and the people were now starting to move freely. Otherwise, they were like a prisoner. 

[17:37] Layla: Ok. So for your job, was there a move that they made you take, that the government asked you to make because the war ended and they needed certain doctors in certain places?

[17:54] Mohammed: Well I was all along in my service while it was Pakistan then the Pakistan’s captain, majors, general used to come frequently to visit my hospital and check up whether I am in the active work or not. So they found all the time that I am in the station and I am doing my job and they were appreciating me. And then when the country was liberated then they, 750 freedom fighters, was living in my hospital. I have to accomodate them in different way and then they also create some shelter by themselves and they were living there and they were getting their training every morning and they were very much, ninety percent people had been suffering from skin disease, and they were very happy that I had enough medicine for skin disease. I used to treat them, and they’re also happy with me. So I was praised by both side. Pakistani Army as well as the freedom fighters, because I was very sincere and I working for the human being and I believed the life so they were very happy with me. 

[19:26] Layla: So personally you didn’t have a care about if the, if East Pakistan was a part of Bangladesh or if it was a part of Pakistan, you didn’t care?

[19:39] Mohammed: I did care because I was also one of the persons from East Pakistan and I can tell you that 99.9 percent peoples was united and wanted to be free from West Pakistan and I am also one of them. But there are some few people, they have a different opinion. One political party, they were different opinion, they thought that they even if the country, the war is win by the East Pakistan, the Bengali people will not be able to rule the country because they have no experience and ultimately they will fail. And ultimately taken, country will be taken by the India. That’s why they are not agree with ninety percent people. But eventually the country was free and still today the Bengali people is ruling their own country.

[20:54] Layla: Yeah so when did you move to the capital?

[21:05] Mohammed: Well it was 1973 that I was transferred from rural health center to Dhaka Medical College Hospital from the rural to the capital so it’s a kind of reward to me because I work four, five years in rural area and the government was happy and they give me a good promotion to Central Hospital at Dhaka.

[21:48] Layla: Okay, so what was your job there?

[21:51] Mohammed: I was a clinical assistant for urology department, the department that concerned with the kidney diseases. And after one year, I was promoted to clinical assistant of surgical ward where I used to start doing surgery and from there I clinical assistant to registrar, then registrar to resident surgeon, all this promotion was in surgical department and I get enough time to get experienced in surgery. 

[22:45] Layla: And so how many years were you there?

[22:49] Mohammed: Altogether around four years in Central Hospital, Dhaka. 

[22:58] Layla: And then you moved again?

[23:00] Shirin: Dhaka Medical College. 

[23:01] Layla: And then you moved again?

[23:06] Mohammed: No I was, I was posted to, transferred to Mymensingh Medical College Hospital and meanwhile—

[23:18] Layla: Where was that?

[23:19] Mohammed: Meanwhile I was appointed as a medical officer to Nigeria on deportation. It’s called government to government. So Bangladeshi government was helping Nigeria because they have a shortage of nurse, doctors, so I was one of them was recruited by the Nigerian government and I had to go to the Nigeria with my family. 

[23:54] Layla: Okay so what year?

[23:57] Mohammed: It was 1977.

[24:02] Okay so I mean did you have any want to go there? Was that someone that you wanted or no?

[24:11] Mohammed: Well basically the Nigerian—a team came from the Nigerian government and there were varieties of people, some were recruiting teachers, some were recruiting doctors, some were recruiting some technical persons.

[24:32] Shirin: Engineer.

[24:35] Mohammed: So they were openly declared that anybody interested to go to the Nigeria, they can appear to the board and face the interview so I took this chance and I was recruited. 

[24:56] Layla: Okay, so why did you want to leave?

[25:00] Mohammed: I wanted to leave because I had a high ambition to become a qualified surgeon. A higher degree is to be taken from England at that time. So for, to fulfill that ambition, I need foreign currency and when I went to Nigeria, I was earning foreign currency hoping that I’ll be a surgeon by profession from London so that was my idea or goal to go outside the country.

[25:55] Layla: Okay, so why did you need foreign money?

[26:02] Mohammed: Because the Bangladesh money was not accepted at that time because it’s a newly built, newly free country and the world was, the country was not known to the world number one. Number two, the currency they have has no value to the international level. So I have to take the foreign currency.

[26:36] Layla: Right. And so in Nigeria where did you live?

[26:43] Mohammed: I was working in Ogun state first time, three four years in Ogun state, capital was Abeokuta and from there I was transferred to Ibiade. The same state but it is far side of the state, they call it waterside where I was working also for another three years and then I break my contract. I wanted to come back but the government was not releasing me because they were too much happy by my skill hand so I have to sign another contract, and this time it was under Lagos state government, and the Lagos state was the capital of the Nigeria at that time so I was getting more facilities, more promotion, and more big hospital to work there so I took it. 

[28:01] Layla: Yeah so why did you want to go back?

[28:04] Mohammed: Not go back actually but they already gave me hope that well once you are going you just enjoy your leave over there in your country and then anytime you do come back, we’ll be pleased to give you a job so once I came back, they gave me a job.

[28:33] Layla: Okay so in what year did you leave Nigeria?

[28:38] Mohammed: In 1985 I finally leave the country

[28:43] Layla: Okay, do you think you were happy there?

[28:47] Mohammed: Oh yes. Initially it was not because there’s two different culture, two different colors, two different language, and we were like a fish out of water so we did not like really, initially but later we found that they usually behaving very nice, very gentle, very honest with the foreigners and I enjoyed it and I was agreed to work over there and then I worked a long time. 

[29:25] Layla: Yeah so in ‘85, where did you go?

[29:30] Mohammed: ‘85, I came back to my country but on my way my wife was in advanced stage so I brought over to England and I was there about a month and a half, I rented a house, and then I got a baby boy from Eastham Hospital in East London and from there we came back to the country, and my youngest son born in London.

[30:15] Layla: So was that planned because you wanted to go to school there?

[30:20] Mohammed: Go to?

[30:21] Layla: Go to school in England?

[30:27] Mohammed: Not really. But I was bound to break my journey and stay over in London for some time because my wife was in advanced stage so it was not wise to make a travel in that condition, that’s why I brought her over there.

[30:48] Layla: Okay so you had no plans to move to London?

[30:53] Mohammed: No at that time it was not because I thought that my son, once he’s born in London, he’ll get the automatic citizenship of England. But unfortunately before he came to this Earth, the law was changed and they were not giving anymore citizenship to the visitors. 

[31:19] Shirin: Before that, we three times we try to go to London.

[31:24] Mohammed: So my son has a freedom to go to London anytime he likes in any amount of days he likes to stay there or even whole life he wants to stay there he can stay because it is his birthright. But unfortunately they will not give him citizenship because the law was changed.

[31:44] Okay and so did, have you ever tried to move to England or no?

[31:52] Mohammed: No because once I get the chance to come in America, who wants to go to London instead of America? So I take the better one. 

[32:04] Layla: So when did you get the chance to go to America?

[32:10] Mohammed: It was 1987 when the immigration process was done by my wife’s sister. She came earlier here to, by marrying a American citizen and he eventually, she eventually got the citizenship also and he applied for her siblings, and my wife was one of them and then eventually my whole family, we came together in America in 1985, uh nineteen eighty, eighty . . .

[32:50] Layla: Seven.

[32:51] Mohammed: Eighty-seven. 

[32:53] Layla: Yeah so why did you want to move here? Why didn’t you want to stay?

[32:56] Mohammed: Well the, because I could not make my fellowship, the FRCS [Fellowship of the Royal College of Surgeons] that I wanted to make from London, it was not possible because at that time our Dhaka Medical Hospital was not registered in England so once it is not registered, I cannot do my resident work over there because after the first part of the FRCS, second part I have to work there practically which I have no chance because the, my hospital was not recognized by the England government so I could not make the FRCS. Eventually, I decided to come back to America and it was already applied before and they called for the visa. We appeared in the American embassy at Dhaka and visa was given for the whole family and we came back to America in 1987.

[34:23] Layla: Came back so?

[34:25] Mohammed: No, came to America. Yes came back because I came before also as a visitor but this time we came here finally.

[34:37] Layla: Okay so was staying in your home country an option at that point in ‘86, ‘87?

[34:45] Mohammed: No it’s an immigrant process is started when the visa was given but the, if any want to see, go back to his parent country or birth country, one could go for a few days only but he can go and come back or anytime he like they can come back or anytime they like to go see the families, rest of the family, they used to go and see but not to stay there permanently anymore. Basically we leave the country forever.

[35:26] Layla: Why?

[35:27] Mohammed: Because once we are here and especially when we got the citizenship, then already promised that we should be loyal to this country and stay in this country and all our activities should be the betterment of this country so that’s why we are not going over there to stay because if I stay there for long time, we will loss so many facilities. We don’t like to go. We stay here for long time and our childrens were getting education and if I continue to and fro, they are not getting chance to get a better result or better education so that’s why I was strict to stay here and my childrens were getting higher degree in this country. Now they’re far better off position. 

[36:28] Layla: So you are saying that the education is better here than Bangladesh?

[36:35] Mohammed: Yes because education here is recognized by all over the world but education in Bangladesh is hardly accepted by any other country other than Bangladesh so it’s very limited over there.

[36:56] Layla: So was that the main reason why you left Bangladesh was for the education system?

[37:03] Mohammed: It is one of the main reason, number one. Number two, my country of origin is a third world country and who like to live over there when the law and orders are not properly maintained and peoples are poor and here, anybody work they getting rich very soon so I decided to stay here. It’s one of the best country in the world, so why should I lost the chance?

[37:39] Layla: Okay so if you could compare the different places that you have lived, the cons and pros of each place?

[37:51] Mohammed: Like you mean the comparison between Pakistan—Bangladesh and America or all over the world?

[37:58] Layla: Nigeria. Dhaka.

[38:01] Mohammed: Oh. Well Nigeria, I like Nigeria though. It is a very nice country. It’s a green country, and at that time I can tell you peoples are very happy because the Obasanje was the head of the state at that time and the currency called naira, it was also value sometimes it was more value than a dollar so at the time where I am working so we work there, we enjoyed there, and we had a very friendly relationship with the people, the Nigerian people and we are very happy. My children was getting education in army school so they’re also happy there and the media was English so no problem. And then when we leave the country, by this time the immigration process is already completed and then very soon they call for the interview for American visa and you got it.  

[39:23] Layla: So what was your life here?

[39:27] Mohammed: So initially, that is a nice question because whatever the country, the birthplace is a birthplace. Nobody like to leave his birthplace because if he leave, then he leaving the, his birthplace not only also losing his culture, losing his friends, losing his community, losing his own city, losing his own country, losing his own language also. So he’s losing so many things but good thing is this. We got the chance to live in a country which is the very powerful in the world, very resourceful in the world. We were initially, there is a language barrier and though we did some English medium education, but people are not speaking over there. They are speaking their own language most of the time. So even we can write the correct English but we cannot speak because it’s no habit to speak English. That’s why initially it was a bit difficult because the accent we don’t understand. So when my children was given to the schools, they were picking up very rapidly and nicely so they did a good result and then both of them become doctor now so they’re established in this country and I myself I did some odd job and I just eventually get my retirement and from there, now I am retired totally so I am okay in my own way. The more days I am staying in this country, the more I like this country. The more facility I am getting from here so now I understand that what I did, I did the best thing. 

[41:50] Layla: Yeah so why did you pick Paterson?

[41:58] Mohammed: Well Paterson, one time it was very resourceful city especially all the garments factories were there so the recent immigrant, those who don’t know the English, they don’t know how to write, for them, immediate money is in working in the factory. So they used to get the good money, so that’s why. But in my case, I settle here because my wife’s all relatives, they were living here and it is a good support that at least not a monetary support but at least that my wife’s brothers and sisters, she can see them every morning and evening so she was happy and when she was happy I could work a long time over there so that is the way I decided to settle in Paterson city. 

[43:08] Layla: Yeah okay so I guess my last question is are you happier here than you were in Bangladesh or do you think your life would be different if you didn’t move and if you still stayed?

[43:25] Mohammed: Well my life could be different if I would not come over here but that doesn’t mean that it would be a better life, no. My life is better here and I am enjoying my life now and my children, my grandchildren, they are growing up and getting a better education and they come to see me time and again so it is a pleasure for me. On the other hand, bad thing only I feel that I have an empty nest now because this house was full of children but now one by one everybody left us and me and my wife only living in this house so if we are not talking each other, then it is pin drop silent. Nobody knows that other people are living this house. So that is sometimes that I don’t like especially when I fall sick. I want my children should be beside me but I cannot get it because everybody was busy here especially my childrens are doing very responsible type of job and they cannot leave it like that to see parents so that’s why this is the bad side, but the good side is many. So the government is giving us money to live so we are living here so nearby there is a store, we don’t need to drive even, we can go there, so we have so many facilities to enjoy and well everywhere there is a good thing, bad thing so bad thing is the time I like to see my children, I can’t see them. That’s the thing. But anyway they can talk over online, they can talk over phone so we’re okay. 

[45:27] Layla: And you have lots of Bangla people here, right?

[45:30] Mohammed: Yeah a lot of my community people, they usually talk. When they talk in the street, I can hear that they’re speaking Bengali language, Bangladeshi language. So moreover there is a religious center here so if anybody like to go for worshipping, they can go easily and enjoy over there. And we have a community of people. One time I was leading the community, now I’m senior enough that I don’t like to go out but still they’re missing me.

[46:15] Layla: Leading what?

[46:17] Mohammed: Leading means any problem in the community then I have to give them some direction, some advice and there is some friction within the community, I have to solve those things sometimes. But these are the things usually as a senior man, they respect me and I try to solve those problem as far as I can.

[46:47] Layla: Yeah so are there any groups that you’re a part of here that make you feel you’re part of the Bangla people here?

[46:55] Mohammed: Well yes there is party like as far as American politics is concerned, some of my people is Republican, some of my people is Democrat, but most, majority of them are doing the Democratic Party. So apart from this, even they participate in local position also and sometimes they win also, one or two of them. 

[47:27] Shirin: My street now. Bangladesh Boulevard. 

[47:34] Mohammed: And some of them are doing politics of Bangladesh, some of them are supporting the BNP [Bangladesh National Party] some of them supporting Awami League. These are the things going on, just passing time. Young grownup people they try to continue their old habit, they continue. Some other educated people, they start doing the American politics, they get more interest in American politics than Bangladeshi politics.

[48:13] Layla: Okay are there any like cultural groups that you’re a part of, no?

[48:19] Mohammed: Well cultural, there is the same cultural group, Bangladeshi people and they are, some of them are Hindu, some of them, religiously there may be one or two groups, otherwise Bangladeshi peoples are very much generous to make friendly relations with the senior people in this country like other religions, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and Jewish. So we’re friendly to everybody and everybody like us and we like them too. 

[49:07] Layla: Okay so I think those were all of my questions. Thank you for being here and for answering my questions.

[49:12] Mohammed: You’re welcome. You’re welcome. I appreciate that you come to me and was asking me some questions and whatever I know, whatever I recollect, whatever I remember, I try to answer you honestly. Thank you.

[49:26] Layla: Okay, thank you.