Ancestral Herbal Narratives

[0:11] Francisco G. Gómez: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Francisco G. Gómez, alias, Fuyo, let me spell that for you, F-U-Y-O. I’m the Executive Director of Raíces Cultural Center, and I’m here today to interview, a person that has grown on me very much since the time that I met her. She’s a, she’s a kindred spirit and a very nice and lovely and beautiful person, both outside and inside. And we’re gonna talk a little bit about not only herbs and plants and whatever, what have you, but also about the spirit, which fascinates me tremendously because they, they fit very well with the herbs. ‘Cause without the spirit, you don’t really have herbs, do you? So, welcome again. Good morning.

[1:11] Evenlyn Sepulveda: Thank you for having me. Thank you for inviting me. 

[1:12] Francisco: Sure. Can you tell us your name?

[1:15] Evelyn: So, it’s Evelyn Sepulveda Cortés.

[1:18] Francisco: Nice. And, and where were you born?

[1:21] Evelyn: So, I was born in Brooklyn. I don’t know too much about Brooklyn. I know that I was born at Bethel Hospital, the Jewish Hospital. But I moved to the Bronx when I was two. So most of my life was spent in the Bronx. I grew up in the Bronx, South Bronx, to be exact. 

[1:37] Francisco: Nice. South Bronx. Wow.

[1:40] Evelyn: I’ve been a Jersey or New Jersey resident for over 34 years.

[1:44] Francisco: That’s what I was just gonna ask you too.

[1:47] Evelyn: Yeah, when I came to New Jersey, my son was seven.

[1:49] Francisco: Nice. So where are you now in Jersey? 

[1:51] Evelyn: So, I live in Piscataway, New Jersey. I’ve lived in several places here. I lived in West New York, New Jersey. I lived in Bayone, New Jersey. I lived in Linden, New Jersey, and then eventually Piscataway. Piscataway is my home now.

[2:06] Francisco: Nice. So let’s get, jump right into it. 

[2:09] Evelyn: Yeah, let’s do it.

[2:11] Francisco: So what does healing mean to you?

[2:14] Evelyn: So, healing for me is about feeling good about yourself. Not only your body, but your soul, your, your energy, your mind. Right? Those are the things that, that heal you. If you have a good, healthy body, if you have a good soul, if your mind is in the right place for me, that’s, that’s what, that’s what healing means to me. That’s what I try to achieve with the people that come to me.

[2:44] Francisco: Very nice. So, throughout your lifetime, what connection have you had, right, with herbalism or the herbal healing traditions that you may have have come across?

[3:00] Evelyn: Yeah. So, you know, most of it comes from my mom. My mom was a very well known person in the Bronx. And we lived in a tenement building, and there were five or six other tenement buildings attached. Everybody knew Carmen, Carmen Cortés was, you know, the person that people came to. I think more for advice. And that advice would turn into, let me prepare something for you that would help you heal. Most of the people I’ve learned through the years that through my own experiences now, I think most of the people that came to her came because they wanted to be heard. Something was ailing them, something was troubling them. And they needed someone to listen to them. And I think that’s what she did best. Right? And then she would say, “Well, let’s talk about, how do we get you to a good place? Qué podemos hacer?” Right? And she would then proceed to say, “I could prepare a bath for you.” And the bath would always consist of herbal plants and agua maravilla, agua bendita, agua florida. And she would mix these things and she would boil them in a pot. And I remember that scent that that would carry out through my, our apartment. It was like, when I, when I do it now, that’s the first thought that comes to mind. I’m back in that place where it feels healing. It feels wonderful to be there. And that’s kind of how it started for me. Just watching my mom put these things together. Prepare a bath, a warm bath. And then, you know, after having consult the person who she was talking to and giving them, you know, like she was wise. She wasn’t a scholar, but she was really wise. She had a lot of wisdom. And she would tell people about, you know, “I hear your problem, but how about we get you into a good place?” And, and a lot of what she did was to help the person get to a good place. And that helps, right? Once you feel you’re in a good place, you can resolve the other issues that you think are your problems. They’re not really your problems. My mother taught me that very early on as well. Most of the people that come to you with a problem, it’s not their problem. It’s a problem that’s being given to them. It’s the other person’s problem who’s making them miserable. And you can’t help that person. You can only help yourself. So she was, you know, all about vamos a bregar con lo que tenemos. 

[5:22] Francisco: That’s a good philosophy.

[5:23] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm. 

[5:24] Francisco: You can’t help a lot of people, but you really,

[5:27] Evelyn: You can help yourself. 

[5:28] Francisco: You can help yourself. 

[5:30] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm.

[5:30] Francisco: And then maybe you can help those people. 

[5:32] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm. 

[5:34] Francisco: Very good philosophy. 

[5:34] Evelyn: And I think you realize then, right, that, you know what, maybe this is not the where I should be.

[5:40] Francisco: Mm-Hmm. 

[5:40] Evelyn: This is not the right person that should be in my life. If you don’t bring joy to my life, you don’t belong in my life. I’ll give you one thing that she said to me that I’ll probably repeat often. She would say to me, and I still use it all the time, and I teach it to my children and my grandchildren. “Yo no vine a este mundo a sufrir.” I did not come to this world to suffer. That simple. That was her moto. Yo no vine a este mundo a sufrir, y si me trae sufrimiento vamos a dejar eso aquí. I don’t need that. I live by that. I live by that. I think those are really powerful words. 

[6:14] Francisco: You had a very wise mother.

[6:15] Evelyn: She was, She was amazing.

[6:18] Francisco: Amazing. 

[6:18] Evelyn: She had a third grade education. But she was the wisest, just spontaneous free spirit I ever knew. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. The apples don’t fall far from the tree.

[6:32] Francisco: This is true. This is true. This is very true. So you’ve mentioned your mother.

[6:42] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm. 

[6:43] Francisco: And what she’s given you, not only in terms of, let’s call it the herbal. 

[6:49] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm.

[6:50] Francisco: That essence, but also she’s imparted upon you wisdom that you’ve taken into your heart and, and the things you do. Apart from that, and having mentioned that people would come to her seeking answers, right?

[7:06] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm. 

[7:07] Francisco: Do you remember anybody else in your family who you would do the same or even part of the community, people that would come and…

[7:18] Evelyn: Yes. Absolutely. My mother had a, a huge circle of friends.

[7:21] Francisco: Mm-Hmm. 

[7:22] Evelyn: And, you know, some were espiritistas, some were santeras, some were just wisdom filled women, some from life experiences. And I think that’s where she got a lot of what she incorporated into her life. You know, we talk, always talked about, everything has good and bad. Every religion, every person, everything has a, a dark and a light, a yin and a yang. And she always grabbed the good from all these different sources, whether it was Santería, whether it was spiritualism, whether it was prayer, whether it was church. She introduced me to all kinds of church and just kind of said, “Sigue lo que te siente en el corazón,” do what feels right to you. And that’s how I taught my children as well. Although I, I grew up in a Catholic church and there were a lot of people in the Catholic church who were a part of this, and who I learned things from, good and bad. Right. So I tried to just take the good, and I think that’s what she did too. So the people that were around us all the time were folks that were in her world where she picked up her good energy from. We didn’t have a paternal or maternal family to rely on. She did not grow up with her biological family. But through the years, we did find out that her mother and her grandmother were curanderas in Loíza. So that’s why I feel such a strong connection to Loíza and why I visit there every time that I go.

[8:51] Francisco: Tell us a little bit about that. 

[8:52] Evelyn: Yeah, yeah. So… That’s very interesting. So once I found that out, and once I started, you know, my, my journey in Puerto Rico began a long time ago, my dad decided that I needed to invest in land in Puerto Rico. And you’re not really an owner of land until you buy something. Anyway, through my dad, I owe it all to him as my connection in Puerto Rico. I started visiting Puerto Rico when I was seven. And I have gone to Puerto Rico every single day of my life since I was seven years old. And once I was old enough to say, “I want to go to Loíza because I’ve heard a lot about this place, you know, from mom, I wanna know what this is about.” The first time that I stepped foot in that town, I was like, “This is it. This is the motherland.” Like, I felt the connection there. That’s where I discovered, you know, Bomba, what is this? Oh my God, I love this. You know, I wanna, these drums, these people, this dance, this, the culture, the music, the, and the fact that not everybody was white. Every everybody was dark skinned. Like my mama. I’m the only, I’m light skinned. ’cause I took after my dad, who is of Spaniard descent. But I, my brother and my mom were darker. And I always wonder, how come I don’t have, how come I’m not dark like they are. But when I, when I stepped in this town of Loíza, I was like, I get it. This is where my mother’s from.

[10:10] Francisco: Yeah. Yeah.

[10:11] Evelyn: So that connection is really important to me. 

[10:13] Francisco: Yeah. Those are, those are specific memories. Now with what you’ve said, can you make some kind of connection between the herbs or herbalism, for example? And, and if you feel like you wanna throw in some of the spirituality as well, you know, coupling it all together, please feel free.

[10:37] Evelyn: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, I have a few things here at the table that, are a part of what I do now. And I learned these things from my mom as well. The two that I use the most, which are herbs and plants are rompe saragüey and abre camino, right? They’re very self-explanatory. Even if I didn’t know what they consisted of what the herbs consisted of, I knew what the meaning was, right? And if I wanted to prepare something for someone, or if my mom prepared something for someone that was lost and needed to find their way abre camino is the first thing that you do, right? So I started to learn about herbs and plants through that process, right? And, you know, I, I’ve, we have technology now, so now I can Google it and get different perspectives, right? Because everybody has a different perspective as to what the plant or the herb is about. But, you know, paraíso, you know, it’s a perfect one. It’s for protection, it’s for love, it’s for money and wealth and good luck. And to remove negative energy, that’s what I love the most about it. That this is what I use when I feel that somebody feels they have a lot of negative energy. I add this to the bath to remove the negative energy. You know, alta misa, you know, there’s so many of them. You know, this is like an anti-inflammatory. People who have issues with, you know, their, their muscles and, you know, inflammation, and they’re not feeling well internally. This is, you know, what I use. Um, apasote. And apasote is, you know, it’s a medicinal, internal cleansing type of herb that comes from Mexico, I’ve learned through the years. Y rue. Rue is you know, it’s for me, it’s for when something is toxic in your life or when you have toxicity in your life. This is, it’s also for headaches. A lot of people come to me that say, “Todo los dias tengo un dolor de cabeza.” And that has a lot to do with your mental state more than anything else. So this is a good one. It’s also great for earaches.  And then, you know, like I said, you know, abre camino or rompe saragüey for me, you know, it’s the breaker of, of negativity. It removes obstacles. It’s a cleanse. And abre camino is exactly what it is to open the roads. 

So those are the ones that I use the most. And I try not to mix bitter with sweet herbs, because there’s some other connections there that I try to, be careful about. And then there’s the mixture of the things that, especially agua florida, agua florida has been in my life since I was born. I think, I think they probably bathed me in this stuff. My mom was a firm believer that if you have the scent on you and you rubbed it on your neck, you are gonna be fine. Like, like you call the good energy when you use agua florida. So, most of the things that I use in my baths are agua florida sin Dios no hay nada, without God, there’s nothing, right? Primero Olodumare y Olofín and agua bendita for me represents that, right? Like, I always ask God to protect me, to guide me, to be with me. So agua bendita from the church, from wherever it comes from, agua bendita to me, is sacred. You know, Elegguá for me opens the roads. I always use a little bit of his cologne, you know, because that opens the roads for me. Agua maravilla just speaks for itself, right? It’s the miracle water. I always add a little bit of that. And, you know, el perfume de las siete potencias, right? Because I always call on the Orishas to help me, to guide me to help the person that I’m trying to help. So those are the things that I kind of mix together. 

You know, cascarilla for me also is very important. It’s a cleanser.  and I kind of, you know, sprinkle that also. So I mix all these herbs and plants and liquids into a pot like my mom did. And I boil it. And then I use a strainer or colador and I pour it into, you know, usually glass. We prefer glass, not plastic. We pour it into a, a glass. And by the way, I use a jicara because I want to use, when I’m mixing the plants that I want to use, I wanna use something that’s from the Earth, not something that is not from the Earth. So, jicara for me, is important for that reason. I mix everything there, and then I pour it into a pot, and I boil it, and I’m calling on the ancestors when I do this. For me, it’s always the ancestors. I’m calling on my grandmother, who I don’t know, but I know she’s with me. I’m calling on my great-grandmother, who were you know, known to be curanderas. Help me, help me, help this person in front of me. Get them to the right place. And that’s kind of my process of how these herbs are connected to what I do and what my mother did.

[15:15] Francisco: Very nice. Very nice. So you’ve told us about these herbs, how you use them for you, what they mean in terms of for you again. So do you have people that come to you to actually obtain some of your, your knowledge in, in this, these practices? 

[15:41] Evelyn: Yeah, I do. I do. Obviously, you know, when people, anyone who knew my mom, a lot of people that that come to me are friends, children of my mother’s friends who will say, “La hija de Carmen, ella también prepara baños, llamala.” And that kind of thing, call her, you know, she prepares baths, you know, she might be able to help. I recently had a dear friend who I helped. And she was the daughter of a good friend of my mom’s. So it’s a lot of word of mouth is how, you know, people will come to me. A long time ago. There’s another process here. Another long, a long time ago, actually, 2010, I think it was. I was introduced to a babalawo who came into my life and opened another door for me, another door that I thought, well, wait a minute, this connects to me in a way that church has not been able to connect to me. Right? And that door was opened for me through a dear friend. And he came into my life to teach me as well. So I learned a lot of things from him as well. He became my godfather, kind of ordained in some ways and a little bit of a different way. He was ordained in Africa, so his teachings are a little bit different, from what I thought I knew. But my baba came to me, I think it was in 2010, and introduced me to Ifá and Ocha, and, you know, taught me a little bit about the energies and the Orisha. So I got a lot from him. So it’s not only people that come to me and ask me for help, but what I’ve learned, I pass it on. Well, I don’t know exactly, but I heard this. And so people do come to me and will ask me, you know, “Who taught you this? How do you do it? How do you, what’s your process?” And what I’m explaining here is the process. It’s just kind of what I’ve taken from people that have come into my life. And I’ve paid forward. I, whoever asks a question, I answer you as honestly as I possibly can. I don’t have the exact answer. I don’t know the exact origin, but I kind of figure things out. So through my babalawo and through my godmother my Iya, that opened up a Santeria world for me that I’ve connected also into this. And if I could take it a little bit further, they live in Brooklyn. So it was really difficult. I I had about two or three years of constant connection with them, right? Where I was always there, and they took me to tambores and to initiations. And I was starting to learn about all these energies and ancestors and Orishas, and how it connects to what I knew and what I learned from my mom, and where I think she got it from, too. I think that during my mother’s era, there was more secrecy to it. Like, you couldn’t really talk about it too much. I don’t, I disagree with that, because if we don’t talk about it, we’re gonna lose it. Right? And those are all important things of my ancestors, of my life that I wanna know, and I wanna teach it to my children and my grandchildren. But we disconnected over the years. I moved to New Jersey. It’s not so easy to get to Brooklyn. I wasn’t participating as much as I should, but I never lost the curiosity. I always tried to Google and research and talk, and I continued to try to practice it on my own and do my own rituals and do my own thing. And then by the grace of God, I found Raíces and Raíces I was able to connect to another part of it. It’s like, you know, this tambore, this Bomba this, you know, this is calling me. This is, this is part of the ancestral feeling that I’m looking for. And I came to an event here. I met both of you, Francisco and Nicole, and through you, thankful to you, you introduced me to, who is now my padrino and who is now teaching me another part of religion and of Ifá and Ocha, more of the Cuban, Puerto Rican kind of, of way. I’m new in this house or this, ile  but it has been astronomical for me. Like, it opened up a door that this is where I wanna be, this is where I belong, and this is what I’ve been looking for. So I’m learning new things every single day. I’m thankful to you for having introduced me to him. He’s a, he’s an amazing human being. And the journey has just begun. I hope that this leads to where I should be. I hope, you know, whatever the journey is, I don’t know what it is for me yet. Maybe someday I’ll make Santo, right? Like, I don’t know that, I don’t know if that’s my journey, but I’m willing to learn from all the folks that have come into my life, including Raíces. Raíces has been very instrumental in my progress.

[20:45] Francisco: So, so it’s interesting where you started, where you are now, and where you may be going, right?

[20:53] Evelyn:Yes. 

[20:55] Francisco: The babalawo in Brooklyn, I believe you said he’s African American?

[21:01] Evelyn: No, he’s Puerto Rican. 

[21:03] Francisco: He’s a Puerto Rican. 

[21:04] Evelyn: He’s Puerto Rican. Yeah.

[21:05] Francisco: But he was… 

[21:06] Evelyn: He was ordained in Africa.

[21:07] Francisco: He was consecrated in, in Africa. So it’s an African tradition. It’s not lucumí, right?

[21:14] Evelyn: So what I, and I don’t know, I don’t wanna speak on his beliefs because I’m not completely clear. I know that I wear an idè that was given to me by my babalawo. And, it’s different than the Cuban one, right? 

[21:25] Francisco: Yes.

[21:26] Evelyn: The Cuban one is usually yellow and green, if you notice, mine is green and brown, right? It’s, Orunmila and Mother Earth. He had a strong connection to Earth has. He’s still with us, and we still keep in touch. He just had a birthday. So he has a lot of the African traditions, you know, he’s surrounded by African people where he lives at in Bed-Stuy. So I learned a lot of the African part.

[21:51] Francisco: So as a Puerto Rican, Puerto Rican here in the diaspora, or was he born in Puerto Rico?

[21:57] Evelyn: He was born in Puerto Rico. 

[21:58] Francisco: He was born in Puerto Rico. That’s fascinating. 

[22:01] Evelyn: Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[22:02] Francisco: So you find a difference between that spirituality that you, you began in and this that you are now practicing. 

[22:09] Evelyn: Yeah.

[22:09] Francisco: Right. 

[22:09] Evelyn: There is a difference. 

[22:10] Francisco: There is a difference. 

[22:11] Evelyn: There’s, there’s connections. Everything is connected, right? We’re all connected to the universe. 

[22:17] Francisco: Mm-Hmm.

[22:17] Evelyn: And the ancestors, that’s where, that’s where the found, that’s what the foundation is for me.

[22:21] Francisco: Mm-Hmm. 

[22:21] Evelyn: But there’s roots. There’s all kinds of roots that comes from that.

[22:25] Francisco: Where I’m going with this is the idea of having a babalawo your first, you know, encounter with, with Ocha from a, from a babalawo who’s who, who was consecrated in Africa, and practices African based Ocha versus the Ocha that you’re practicing now, which is Lucumí.  So seeing that panorama, that first panorama, and now in this panorama of Ocha, do you find the connection in terms of the herbs the same? Or are, do they vary? Are they different?

[23:07] Evelyn: I think they vary. I think they do vary. But they’re connected for me. They’re connected. You know, a lot of what I did there, which is part of what I’m doing here, 

[23:15] Francisco: Mm-Hmm.

[23:16] Evelyn: I’m learning. 

[23:17] Francisco: Mm-Hmm. 

[23:17] Evelyn: Where I’m at now. My padrino now is teaching me different ways of doing things. I’m learning so much from him. You know, I’ve been able to, to participate in misas. That was, that was big for me. Like, I had never, I had always heard about it. I think my mom went to many of them, but I don’t recall them from my childhood until I started, you know, uh, spending time with my padrino. And I went to my first misa and this wonderful woman who was doing the prayers, your wife, Angela. I was like, man, this is awesome. I love this. You know, like, those are the things that I’m, I’m learning new things, tambores and initiations, and a new way of doing things. And I’m taking the good that I feel is, you know, necessary in my life from everything that I’m learning now. And, and it, it all intertwines. It really does.

[24:12] Francisco: And in terms of culture, let, let’s, let’s talk just about culture now and take it a little away, a little bit away from the, the spirit. You have a, a man that, in which you, you began with in New York is African, I imagine he’s a, he’s a, he’s a black man.

[24:31] Evelyn: He’s dark skinned. 

[24:31] Francisco: He’s dark skinned man. 

[24:32] Evelyn: Trigueño.

[24:35] Francisco: Was his culture, Puerto Rican culture?

[24:40] Evelyn: I think it was a mixed, 

[24:41] Francisco: It was kind of mixed.

[24:42] Evelyn: Yeah. I think it was a mix between African and, and Puerto Rico. Yeah. He’s very boricua, though. Baba is very boricua. Baba Tony. He’s very boricua. But he loves the African tradition and he respects where it came, where this religion he came from. it starts in Africa for him.

[25:02] Francisco: So where, in essence where do you think is, is the point where the Ocha that you’re practicing now is, is not very different, but different from that which you, you began and what, what makes the different for you?

[25:18] Evelyn: Yeah, for me, I think now I am learning more about who the Orishas are. How they apply to a person’s life. You know, who is your Santo? Why is he your Santo? You know, how does he claim you? All these things like, you know, I think I can share this without, I, I just learned that I am a child of Changó. And I never, I didn’t know that. I didn’t expect that. I don’t know. I thought I was, I don’t know. I thought I was a Yemayá child, right? Like, I always connect to the ocean and that’s where I do a lot of what I do is by the ocean. And se lo entregamos al mar, we leave it, you know? So I always thought, and now I’m learning that no, think about who you are, how you live your life. Of course, I’m a child of Changó. Like that’s, you know, so I’m learning different things.

[26:13] Francisco: Mm-Hmm. 

[26:14] Evelyn: Different things that are helping me to connect to my life.

[26:18] Francisco: Great. 

[26:19] Evelyn: Yeah. 

[26:19] Francisco: Great, great. 

[26:19] Evelyn: Find the missing pieces. ‘Cause again, I don’t have a lot of knowledge about my, my ancestors because my mom was not raised with her maternal and paternal family. So through this process, I’m learning about, ah, okay, so that’s what this means. And that’s, that’s who I connect to. That’s what makes me who I am.

[26:41] Francisco: So I wanna delve a little bit more into, into this aspect of your life. And this sounds more of a spiritual quest than an herbal quest, but that’s fine, because the herb compliments the spirit and the spirit compliments the herb.

[26:57] Evelyn: Absolutely. 

[26:58] Francisco: But what, what do you think is it, what is the thing that led you away from there, from there in Brooklyn and, and brought you out to the world without knowing where you were gonna step out from that? And don’t hold back because this is all, this is all very much important. 

[27:19] Evelyn: Yeah.

[27:19] Francisco: Because those processes have herbalism, you know, involved. 

[27:25] Evelyn: Absolutely.

[27:26] Francisco: In many different ways. There are things that you acquire there, and in your transition, there’s things that you also acquire. And where you go again, you acquire other things that vary in aspects and ranges in terms of herbalism and the things that you need from that to actually achieve it. Right. Because you were saying, and a lot of these things are very important for anybody who’s looking for the spirit. Right? 

[27:54] Evelyn: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. 

[27:56] Francisco: Yeah.

[27:56] Evelyn: Yeah, so they, for me, they do connect, you know, from what I was learning in, in with a babalawo in Brooklyn, not so different from what I’m learning, you know, with Puerto Rican padrino here in New Jersey. I’m connecting, I’m connecting what I learned in one place with the other. They, they are absolutely intertwined and connected. I, I was disconnected for a long time because I spent two or three years with them constantly. And then I went about seven or eight years with no guidance.Just, you know, hello and goodbye on the phone. Not really connecting or attending services or rituals or, I learned a lot from them. But I want, I was hungry to, to do more and to be connected to someone that I could actually participate with. Which is why I was looking for somebody in New Jersey that I could spend more time with. So they do connect. One connects with the other in so many levels. Not so different, actually. They’re actually not that different. They’re taught in different ways. But…

[29:05] Francisco: So in interesting, one, one is a, a biological manifestation, right? ‘Cause you have el babalawo in Brooklyn, and now you have an Orisha padrino here in New Jersey.

[29:21] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm. 

[29:22] Francisco: You there, you, you’ve talked about a, a timeframe in between that you were in, into nothing other than yourself. Did any of the herbs that you use or anything else, in that practice help you along those seven years?

[29:40] Evelyn: Absolutely. Actually, this, this particular jar that I have here has a date on it. And it has my name on it because this is the jar that I use when I prepare a bath for myself. When I feel disconnected and when I am looking for, you know, answers or something, you know, I want something in my own life to, to feel better. I prepare my own bath according to what I’m feeling. This one has been to be dated October of 2020. And it’s during that time when I was just kind of on my own, I’ve never lost, lost my faith or my, or my trust or my connection to the ancestors. One of the first things that I built when I, when my, babalawo taught me was the first thing that he taught me. Once I got my Orunmila bracelet, I also have a right, I got warriors. And that taught me a whole other aspect of this. But one of the, my favorite things that he taught me was my egun shrine, right? ‘Cause he was like, “Sin tus ancestros no eres nada,” you have to know where you come from and how you came to be in order for you to evolve. So I do have an egun shrine, that consists of a lot of things through the years. And that’s kind of what I held onto during that space where I was on my own. I connected with my egun shrine, and I had a lot of conversations with my mama’s picture there. And all these things I have, I have in a little cabinet right next to my egun shrine and my palo de muerto. And I, I just stay connected to what I, what I knew. I have a boveda from my obatalá  and I know that that’s for my health. And, you know, if I don’t feel well, that’s the person that I would go to in my shrine. And so, although I wasn’t connected to him daily or, you know, weekly, I didn’t have weekly sessions with him, he gave me enough information for me to kind of, you know, do this on my own. Always stay connected, you know, always give thanks, always connect to my ancestors. You know, I could sit in front of that shrine when something is on my mind and I’m not clear. I could just sit there and meditate.  That shrine is so important to me, and it has like a little white cloth over it. And I lift up the white cloth. And in it are all my ancestral, my grandmother, my aunt, my mom, another very elder santera, who was very instrumental in my life. You know, she’s kind of always there with me. And I’m a widow. So I have a lot of the, the, the men who gave me children and, you know, who were part of my life, they’re in there also because I feel that they’re important to my, my life. But that shrine, that ancestral shrine is really important to me. And that’s how I stayed connected during the time that I didn’t have a babalawo or a padrino constant in my life. I never gave, I never lost sight of, you know, where I wanted to be.

[32:42] Francisco: I’m glad you mentioned the, the egungun. Very, very important. And I think that that’s something that just answered my next question. The connection between healing and, and, and, and spirit. You’re talking about those, those entities which are very important. And that’s why I had asked you about that timeframe in between, from one, from one, you know, leader to another leader.

[33:08] Evelyn: Yeah. Those ancestor roles… 

[33:10] Francisco: Trying to lead you through life. Right. And, and when we when we fall out in one aspect or the other, one is that we can really count on. And that’s why they always say, they always say, “sin muerto no hay santo.” Right? ‘Cause the muertos are always there. Always there.

[33:29] Evelyn: Always. 

[33:30] Francisco: That’s very interesting. So you answered that. Very good. I understood that. Now, do you see, do you see anything in relation to that healing the spirit and now the energy, the energy flow? What, what is it, what is it that, that you understand from, from the ancestors that come to you? And what, how does that energy become a part of you to take you through? And then how does that lead you to los Orishas. Which is another, I mean, they’re, they’re big energy, right?

[34:09] Evelyn: Right, right. 

[34:09] Francisco: Huge energy. Can you kind of define that for us in your own way?

[34:14] Evelyn: For me, for me anyway, you know, that egun shrine, like I said, is my, that’s step one for me, right? So I usually sit in front of that. Right next to it I have another shrine where I was taught, what’s a good way to put it. My babalawo taught it to me in a way that was, that would make sense to me. You know, I work for JP Morgan Chase, so the corporate world is what I’m familiar with. And he says, imagine that God, Orunmila Olofi  is the CEO underneath that you have the next two in charge, which is, you know, Orunmila and Ọbatala. To him, that was his way of teaching me how to stay connected to all these, you know, entities. All these energies. Underneath that are all the Orishas, you know, las siete potencias, Yemayá, Ochun,  Oya, Changó and so forth. And I, so I developed, I, I started to build another shrine according to that, right? So I have on top, I have all my Obatalá and Orunmila stuff. In the next shelf I have, you know, my female Orishas, because I, I always felt very connected to the female, Oyá when I need to be a fighter, you know, Yemayá, when I need  protection my children and, you know, that motherly Ochun when I need love, when I need guidance, you know, and so forth. So I have another shrine for them. And in there I have things that I feel connect me to them, whether it’s shells from the ocean. I started a long time ago collecting shells for Yemayá And everywhere that I went, anytime that I go to the ocean, I find something that I bring back for my shrine. I have a lot of shells. And then, you know, Changó, even though I didn’t know at the time that I was a child of Changó, one of the first things that I did that my babalawo gave me a task. And he said, “I want you to make a maraca.” And he gave me a maraca and he says, “You’ve gotta take all this junk off of it,” right? It was just like a regular maraca, I don’t even remember what the drawing on it was. He says, “You’re gonna sand it down to its core, to its original state,” he says, “And then you’re gonna, decide who you want that maraca to be for.” And I, you know, I did it. I didn’t really know what I was doing, but I spent a lot of time sanding down my maraca. And, you know, that was one of the first things that I made for Changó. It ended up being a red and white with a thunderbolt kind of maraca that I still use. Even before I knew I was a child of Changó, he was with me. He was guiding, and that was one of the first things that I did. So I have, then I have his shrine and, and that shelf also, I have, you know, my Changó, the turtles and the tambor, and, you know, little things that connect me to him. If I’m traveling, a lot of times when I go to Puerto Rico, I’ll bring back something that for me in that trip, symbolized who was with me or what energy was with me, whether it’s a turtle that I bring back for Changó, whether it’s, you know, a fan or a mask that I bring for Oyá whatever it is. But I, my shrines have all that stuff, and I can sit in front of that shrine and connect, you know, I kind of meditate, you know, I speak out loud. I, I live alone. So I’m able to do that, right? I can sit with a little notebook and a journal and just kind of, you know, this is what I think I need  to do now for myself, first of all, right? Because I can’t help other people until I help myself.

You know, I’m a firm believer that, as my mom said, “Yo no vine a este mundo a sufrir.” I didn’t come to this world to suffer. So if there’s anything in my life that makes me unhappy, it has to go. And that’s kind of words that I live by, you know? And I sit in front of that shrine and I think about it, you know, what’s, if it’s somebody that comes to me for help, this person is ailing because of X, Y, Z, because of a partner, because of an ailment, because of a lost parent, whatever it is. And then I just kind of listen, I, I, I wait for those energies to talk to me, and I write it down and I write it down. I just meditate, listen. You know, I wait for the energies to come to me. And that’s kind of how I work. And then if, if what came to me was Oyá,  you know, that’s who, who was in my mind, then I know this person needs to fight. And I start to prepare things according to that. And that’s kind of my, my process. When I build a bath for someone that comes to me for help, those energies are always there. And those two little shrines, not to mention the shrine by my door, which are my warriors. When I need something for myself, when I feel that I need help, those are the guys I turn to. I sit in front of that shrine and I… te necesito, this is what’s going on, and I just wait for the feeling, or, you know, what, what, what, what message comes to me. 

[39:04] Francisco: Right. In that energy. 

[39:06] Evelyn: Yeah. And the energy does interesting flow. It really does flow. I feel it all the time. There’ve been many times when I’m here just kind of dancing Bomba with you guys. And it’s just kind of, you know, I try to like push it back a little bit, but I feel it. I totally feel it here too. Yeah.

[39:24] Francisco: So, so that was a very good explanation of energy. Very good explanation. I think. Probably we can go more in depth on that, but we’re always at the mercy of the clock. But it’s important to preserve.

[39:43] Evelyn: Absolutely. 

[39:44] These traditions and these cultures, I call ’em cultures because there’s, there’s many intertwined. Its a mosaic of culture and traditions. Do you feel, and the reason I’m gonna ask you this question is because you said that you really had no formal learning in this. Everything was by word of mouth or watching when you were young, your mother. Do you think that the, there is a chance that these traditions and cultures, they’re in jeopardy and they might be at a loss in, at some point in time in the future?

[40:25] Evelyn: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think now, especially with technology, the internet, social media, you know,  I know from my own experience, right? Like, I try to teach things to my sons. I have two sons. I taught them a lot of what I, the way I was taught, which was to follow my heart. You know, there was no religion was imposed on me. Mom said, “Vete a la pentecostal” go to Pentecostal, go to the Catholic church. And I went to the Pentecostal. Lord, that was like two hours that I’m of my life. I’m, you know, that didn’t connect, right? And I go to the Catholic church, I don’t like what they’re saying, you know, that kind of thing. I had to find my own way.So my mom kind of, you know, made sure just find your way.

And I tried to do that with my children as well. Turns out now I have an atheist. My oldest son is an atheist. He believes in science, and, you know, he has his own belief, but I taught him that way. And then there’s my younger son, Steven, who I think tends to have more of my beliefs. I never, I didn’t have daughters. I have two daughter-in-laws who I absolutely adore who are like, like my daughters, but they’re not of Hispanic culture. One is Italian and one is Polish. So it’s hard for me to teach this to them. They don’t accept it the way I would like them to. They’re kind of like, yeah, okay, you know, if I need help, I’ll call you. But I have granddaughters now, one in particular who I think is really curious, right? ‘Cause she asked a lot of questions. I was like, she reminds me of me, and I’m hoping that I can at least pass it on to her. If we don’t talk about it, if we continue to shroud this in secrecy, it’s gonna get lost. If we don’t have places like Raíces that will open up a door right where you can, well wait. You know, what’s the culture? What’s the music? What’s the dance? Where, where does this come from? You know, how are my ancestors connected to me? We’re gonna lose it. Absolutely. We are in absolute danger of losing it. But if you have people like me and like you guys who are trying to keep, keep it alive,  you know, I belong to an Ile now where I had no idea that there could be that many godchildren. He has a lot of godchildren, and they, they’re all amazing from different walks of life. And I freaking love it. Like, you know, I’ve made all these new friends and they’re teaching it forward too. So we just have to talk about it. We have to do things like this, have interviews, have podcasts, have whatever the new technology is, let’s keep it alive so that it doesn’t get lost.

[43:00] Francisco: Well look at that. You just answered my next question  about preservation. You answered that very well too. I mean, I, I think everything you said is, is very valuable. 

[43:11] Evelyn: We have to keep it alive. We have, have to pay it forward. 

[43:14] Francisco: Yeah.

[43:14] Evelyn: You know, it’s about paying it forward, right? 

[43:15] Francisco: Yeah.

[43:16] Evelyn: Like…

[43:16] Francisco: Yeah. Yeah. 

[43:17] Evelyn: You know, before there was Pfizer and whatever the pharmaceutical companies are, before there was any of that, there were the, the, the curanderas.

[43:26] Francisco: Mm.

[43:26] Evelyn:And the, the, the herbalist who went to the forest and actually grabbed stuff and made you something when you had an earache, or, you know, when you had a bellyache or when you had worms or whatever it was before there was medicine, there were herbs.

[43:39] Francisco: Yes. 

[43:40] Evelyn: There were, the ancestors were there before any of it.

[43:43] Evelyn: Right? So we need to stay connected to that.

[43:46] Francisco:  Yeah.

[43:46] Evelyn: We can’t forget where we come from.

[43:50] Francisco: So, finally…

[43:52] Evelyn: Mm-Hmm.

[43:53] Francisco: Is there anything else you can add to all of that?

[43:55] Evelyn: Yeah, no, just really thankful for this venue, for this process that, you know, that is happening here. I think this is really important what you guys are doing to preserve, right? And to help us open it up to other people that will say, “Well, you know, hmm, I could do that. That’s not so difficult. What does that, you know, what does that involve?” And I gotta tell you, you know, I’m proud to say that I am 61 years old now. I have, you know, I’m blessed with health, right? Which is the most important thing. And I’m blessed with health because I grew up with a mother who taught me to protect my body, to not poison my body, to stay away from drugs and alcohol. And, you know, she, she did her best and she wasn’t perfect. Trust me. She wasn’t perfect. But, I learned how to, to be good to myself, to protect soul and my body. And, you know, my head, my, this is my crown, right? I always wanna be in a healthy place. And do I want that for my granddaughters? Absolutely. So I’m gonna do my best to pay it forward and to teach it. And I think that you guys are doing a great job with that as well. I love that. When I come here to Raíces, it’s not just about one thing. It’s about a lot of things. It’s salsa, it’s són, it’s clave, it’s Bomba, it’s, you know, dance. It’s, you know, there’s so much here that we can grab from, right? And I, I hope more places like Raíces open up, you know, in our towns and our communities, you guys do a lot for the community. And I think that’s really important. You know, we are, the ancestors are our foundation, herbs, our, you know, everything. And to have this community is really, really important to keep it.

[45:44] Francisco: Thank you very much, Evelyn Sepulveda. Was it Cortés?

[45:49] Evelyn: Cortés, Evelyn Sepulveda Cortés. 

[45:50] Francisco: Yes. For coming out every…

[45:52] Evelyn: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[45:54] Francisco: Thank you for all the valuable information. Thank you.

[46:01] Nicole Wines: One more question. 

[46:02] Evelyn: Yes.

[46:02] Nicole: I’m gonna jump in and just ask a fun question.

[46:05] Evelyn: Yeah absolutely. 

[46:06] Nicole: Do, do You have a favorite herb or a plant that calls out to you that you love to work with the most?

[46:11] Evelyn: Abre camino by far. By far. I use that in almost everything that I do. Right? If the road isn’t open, there’s nothing you can do, right? You have to, that’s the first thing you have to do, open the road. And I think when you hear that, right, when, when somebody, ’cause I always, I make a list when I prepare bath, I, I make a list. This is the herb that I use. This is the, the water that I use and so forth. That’s the one that resonates the most with most people. Abre Camino, that’s what I need. They don’t even know what that means, but that’s what they need. But that’s what they need. So absolutely. Abre Camino. Thank you both. 

[46:46] Francisco: Thank you.