Ancestral Herbal Narratives

[0:11] Nicole Wines: Welcome, welcome, Jimena. My name is Nicole Wines. I’m here, it’s Saturday, October 7th. We are at Raíces Cultural Center 20 River Road in Highland Park. It’s the first time that Jimena Vega, who we’re interviewing in our Herbal Ancestral Narratives Oral History Project, is visiting our center. And so thank you for coming in here to, to visit and to be in our space with us.

[0:37] Jimena Vega: No thank you, Nicole, for inviting me. And like I told you, I love the space. I love the art, the nature that is behind me, the architecture. I think everything is related to, to my life right now [laughs]. I really love the space. Thank you for, for having me.

[0:56] Nicole: You’re very welcome. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself? Who you, who you are, where you’re from, where you were born, where you live now?

[1:06] Jimena: Mm-hmm. Well, I was born in Ecuador, in the Highlands, in the Andes, and I came to this country when I was 15 years old. I came because my dad was living here, and then he brought us to my mom and my brothers and I, so since then, I  have been living here in Union City, New Jersey. I haven’t moved from there. I’m still living there. And yeah. I went to college, I study architecture. And from there, I feel that something in me, like the creative part of me, start evolving. But after I left college, I, work in the construction field for like 10 years but, during those years, I was always like doing something artistic. So- and always something related to nature, because when I grew up in Ecuador, I grew up on a place where nature was there present. So I I always miss that part of, of me that I left in Ecuador. So when I was here, it was like, okay, let me explore in some sort of way. So I started exploring through architecture by doing some projects for community gardens or, or later on, like through my art that I start doing a lot of illustrations, about nature, about women. Yeah.

[3:04] Nicole: Great. Thank you so much. I’m gonna start with the big question and then work down to smaller stories. So what does the word healing mean to you?

[3:12] Jimena: The word healing for me, it’s at this point of my life, to be honest, it’s like, feel in peace with myself where I am right now. So that implies feeling peace, where I’m working, how I am right now, and, accepting all the good things and also the struggles that I have. But at some point I trying to don’t take control and just let it just feel peace with them. And also I feel that healing means, that it’s okay that I can ask for help and support, and it doesn’t have to be just by myself. It’s fine if there is community, if I have my partner, if I have my mom, if I have plants as allies. So yeah, that’s what healing means for me.

[4:31] Nicole: Great, thank you. You mentioned plants as your allies, so I’m gonna then move off right into herbalism and herbal healing. So through your life, what connections have you had to herbalism, to herbal healing, to herbs and plants as healing allies, and any other healing traditions that you might have come across?

[4:51] Jimena: Mm-hmm. Well, since I was a child, I was the first generation that was born in the- in a city [laughs]. My mom, my grandmother, they all lived- all those generations were born in the, en la provincia no se como se dice en ingles. En lado de la provincia de Ecuador. So pretty much they didn’t have doctors, or they didn’t have anything. So they have the knowledge of plants. So when they moved to the city and I was born there, my grandmother and my mom, they still have that knowledge. So every time if I get sick or something they use plants for anything, you know. So, and also curanderos, curanderas, healers, I remember when I was a child, we have a curandero, a healer in my neighborhood. His name was Compita and he was like my primary doctor [laughs]. So, every time, my mom has a story about me when I was a child, I don’t remember to be honest, because I was really very little. I was like- she said that I was three years old after my dad left the country, actually, that I got very, very sick. And she took me to the doctors and nothing was working. I was sick, really sick. And my grandmother told my mother to take me to- to this healer, to Compita. And she took me to him and he told my mom that I was like, really bad and the only way that I can heal, is by doing exactly what he is telling her how to do the remedies. And she said that at that moment, she took me to the house and she went to the, to the mercado, to the market, and she bought all the plants and everything that she needs for me in order to heal. And that was the only thing that healed me. And because the medication from the doctor was not working, and the other stuff, the plants and all that stuff heal me. So when I was living in Ecuador, pretty much like, my grandmother and my mom had all these remedies, you know? So since then I start, I was in- I guess, that stories and that experiences that start, embedded in my consciousness. So, yeah.

[8:19] Nicole: Great. So it was coming through your family, it was coming through your community, it was just kind of the, a natural thing that was all around?

[8:28] Jimena: It is, I guess in Ecuador, at that time it was a… it was there kind of- because a lot of people had that knowledge, like my mom’s and my grandmother’s generation had that knowledge about plants. So, but also it’s something about community because, even if you, if you have the remedy, sometimes you didn’t have the plant, but the neighbor had the plant. So usually we didn’t have it. My mom was like, “Okay, I’m gonna ask the neighbor to, for some of the plants that we need.” So we all have some sort of community where people knew that certain plants were good for certain, certain, you know, things. So I guess it was a kind of from generation, but also from community. Because like I said, the healer, Compita, el curandero, was living, he lives like, two blocks away from my house, and everyone knew that he was a healer, you know? So yeah.

[9:57] Nicole: Thanks for sharing. How much of your family lives here and how much of your family is still in Ecuador?

[10:09] Jimena: Well, my, the family that lives here is, it was more from the, my dad’s side. My uncles from my mom’s side, they all live in Ecuador. My mom is the only one that lives here. Well, she is here just visiting us because she went, she’s living in Ecuador right now. So right now she’s just visiting us for a few months. But my brothers, my immediate family.

[10:40] Nicole: So in your mom’s generation- if she still lives in Ecuador and in her generation, the people who are living in her community, are they still practicing these traditions?

[10:51] Jimena:  To be honest I don’t think so. Like, how was, before when we were living there? I don’t think they are still practicing, because I feel that now it in, I feel that where I was living, how was before is it doesn’t look like that anymore. Even- it is more urban. And also I feel that people goes to the doctors mostly now. They don’t- they don’t keep practicing, you know, they believe more on that pill or something like that. 

[11:41] Nicole: So you see the practice changing there? 

[11:43] Jimena: Yeah, I can see the change, yeah. 

[11:45] Nicole: Are there still people who are practicing curanderos?

[11:49] Jimena: Yes. Like in my neighborhood, no, I don’t think so. But in other parts of Ecuador, of course, yeah, there is still curanderos and curanderas, but in my neighborhood, how was before it is, it is not like the same anymore. It’s totally different how it was in, you know.

[12:14]  Nicole: And then on the other side of it, how did the move the migration from one, one community to a different community, you know, here, How did that impact on the, those practices in your family?

[12:26] Jimena: It was really- they change a lot, obviously, because I came from a really small country and we never traveled even inside of Ecuador, just to one place where my aunt lived. So coming here it was like, really drastic change. So  it was more like trying to survive instead of, you know, try, so the adaptation too was really- it was really tough, the language, the age that I came, it also was, I think, really difficult because I already had my own opinions, my own way of thinking and coming here was like, kind of like, see how different it was, you know?  So yeah, it was really tough experience to come here. Mm-hmm.

[13:39] Nicole: Do you now, as an adult, do you practice any herbal traditions?

[13:45] Jimena: Yes, I do, actually. I do, yeah. I use herbs. I start using plants that are from here, and also I start learning about new plants that I didn’t know. So yeah, I have like a- I stand with a lot of herbs and I love to go to community gardens, so I can have some herbs and all that stuff. So, yeah, I- well, my mom, she always tell me, “I think you are the one that is keeping the tradition here.” [laughs]

[14:29] Nicole: And who did you start to learn that from?

[14:32] Jimena: Here? 

[14:33] Nicole: Yeah. 

[14:34] Jimena: It was like- I always have like that curiosity about plants. So, there was a moment in my life when I start having- I start walking in my neighborhood like every day. And I remember I start seeing plants in the sidewalks that I never recognized before. So I start questioning, what’s this? You know, because they were beautiful, and I, they were just there. And I start like, okay, but I don’t know anything about these plants. And then, like I said, I always love plants and all that stuff. So I start following people in Instagram, social media, and then I start noticing that some of the plants that they were talking about were medicinal plans. Obviously, I wasn’t taking the plants, but I, at least I start recognizing that those plants were medicinal, you know? So that’s how I start my interest and more about plants and herbs. Mm-hmm.

[15:57] Nicole: Did you- did any of the knowledge that your mom has, did she pass that down to you about plants?

[16:04] Jimena: Yes. Yes, actually, yes. I don’t know if you know about nettle. Nettle, so that one, my mom used, I remember she using Ecuador for when she had pain on the muscles, like in the legs or something like that. She used to take some from the garden and just like, como sacudirte en la piel [laughs] and, oh, when you don’t behave, I remember she said, “O, anda traer ortiga para ortigarle porque se esta portando mal.” So when I came here, I didn’t know that you can do an infusion and all that stuff and you can drink it. So now I, now I can use it for pain muscle and also for all the stuff, you know, so, yeah. 

[17:01] Nicole: Great. You did speak about this a little bit, but how do you see the difference between the way that these herbal traditions were taught and passed down and preserved a generation or two back and how they’re being learned and shared now?

[17:21] Jimena: The difference?

[17:22] Nicole: The difference in how these- in how these practices have changed?

[17:26] Jimena: Mm. Obviously, like in Ecuador you didn’t have to pay to learn about them because the knowledge was already there. And everyone knew something about, some plant. If you go to the, the store- like I remember going with my mom to the, the store and she’s saying, “Oh, I have a headache,” or something like that. And the, and the neighbor said, “Oh, why you don’t take this plantita, this tea,” or what, you know? So the knowledge, I think it was there, I don’t know if it was because people was more connected to the land because at that time, obviously people were still working on the land too, so there was more connection with the land. And now it’s like, you need to start looking for the knowledge in places where obviously you need to pay for it, which is not bad, you know? But, yeah. 

[18:42] Nicole: In your culture specifically, and then in the way that you practice your herbal knowledge and practices, what do you see as the connection between healing and spirit or healing and energy, or both?

[18:59] Jimena: Mm-hmm. That’s really interesting because I have a story in, in that my mom always told me that when I was little we went to buy something, like just by walking and where we were living, there were a lot of trees, and it was, como era como un campo todavia y…, we- she said that we sit on like, in the- around the tree, and we were playing with my brothers there, and we left. I started crying like a lot, a lot, a lot. And when we got home, I still crying, and my grandmother told my mom that my, my spirit is still in the tree and that they need to go back to the tree and start calling my name so my spirit can come with me again. So there was always that I feel like unconsciously there was that notion about spirit, you know, like everything has a spirit, the trees and the plants and all that stuff. So in Ecuador, they always like, we call mal aire, and it is this thing that if you got bad vibes or something, you take a plantita, you take some plants and you clean yourself. So yeah, since then, I, I start having this understanding that there was this connection that we have, this connection with everything, with plants, with trees, with, with everything, you know? And that we need to have certain respect with it, and we need to have this type of…how can I say it? Yeah, respect. Respect that if you go to a forest, o a un bosque, you need to ask for permission because you’re entering to a place where there are living spirits, you know? So, yeah.

[21:36] Nicole: Okay. I wanna ask you about your artwork. I think I was talking to you a little bit in the past and saw some of the work that you did where you did some interviews with healers and women who use plants. And- can you tell us a little bit about that project?

[21:51] Jimena: Yes. So like I said, when I start walking in the- having a walk, like every day in my neighbor here in Union City I noticed that obviously I was really disconnected to this territory. And like I said before, for me coming here, it was really like- it was like a trauma, to be honest, coming here, it caused trauma on me, on my body, and on my mind. So when I start having these walks, I start noticing, okay, what is this plant? Like why I am not feeling that I’m part of this country? So I started having all these questions about like, why it hasn’t been that difficult for me to feel connected to here? So I was more like questioning, how I was looking this country as a nation and not as a territory. So I was like, okay if I wanna feel part of here, I wanna notice that this is not a nation, this is a territory, you know? And before there was no houses there, it was just a territory where, where plants and all that stuff. So, and I was thinking out about how seeds sometimes, like when you’re traveling, a seed can come in your head, you know, in your hair or something like that, and you bring one seed from another country without noticing. And I was thinking about that and how seeds are so… fuertes, like strong, and they can just literally fall in the soil and start growing. So that’s how I start comparing my immigration story. Like, okay, I’m here and I can grow, I can grow and also bloom. So I was thinking, okay, I know that other people felt, feel the same way that coming from another country is really difficult and, and traumatic. So I was like, okay, maybe I, I can create a space where women can share those stories, but also can share a story about plants and how they can compare those stories with plants here, you know? So that’s how Plantitas Que Hablan, “Plants Who Talk, Who Speak”, yeah, it, it was great, you know? 

[25:06] Nicole: Do you feel that through that work, through the different things that you talked about earlier, the way that these practices are changing in Ecuador, the way that they changed for you and your family here, the way that you practice it differently here and in this time, rather than if you had grown up in your mom’s generation and it was just all around you for your entire life, right? That you didn’t have that disconnect. And you mentioned that word, the disconnect, not feeling that connection. Do you think that we’re in danger of losing as a, as a whole society, our connection to healing practices that, especially healing practices that have to do with plants and nature and herbs specifically, or traditions, or do you think that it being preserved and passed down in different ways now? 

[25:56] Jimena: It’s a difficult question because I see that, like, for example, in my family, I don’t see my brothers or my sister-in-laws or my, even my mother sometimes is like, Why you don’t, why you don’t do like what you were doing Ecuador before? Like when I was little, I remember you do certain things and now you just wanna go to the doctor. Why you stop believing on the traditions that your mom and your grandmother had before? You know, because my grand grandmother, she was…a madrona, I don’t know how to say in English, a doula or a birth worker, a birth worker. So they all have that knowledge, you know? But my mom is like- she doesn’t kind of believe on, on those traditions anymore. So it’s difficult to see, you know that people, I guess for, they wanna feel part of this society where everything is about doctors and all that stuff, so they put the tradition at the side, you know? So, but also there are, I see a lot of women trying to go back and see their, their roots and find themselves that again, like on what their grandmothers were doing in, in their lands, you know? So it’s, it’s a difficult question, I think because I see part of, I see part of people that they don’t really care about tradition. And also I see other people like me because I can- I live like 23 years here, so, you know, but I, I really want to remember and really wanna use that tradition and knowledge that I know that it was part of my, of my ancestras. So I’m pretty sure there are a lot of people like me that want to go back and see and have and try to see what happened and be more conscious about it, you know, be more in a respectful way to see what happened, why we are so disconnected from land and from those traditions, and yeah. And start questioning ourselves, like why we are so disconnected, you know? But I, I, I wanna say that I, I have hope that there are people that want to keep using those traditions. 

[29:08] Nicole: What are the ways you see people working towards preserving and sharing those traditions and that knowledge now here where you are? 

[29:18]: Jimena: I think it’s because I think it’s necessary. I think it’s necessary to slow down and see that our lives are more than dues like work [laughs] being part of a society that is capital… really, that just cares about the capital, the money, about the, you know, about that stuff. So yeah, I feel that, yeah, that’s, that’s what I feel. 

[30:07] Nicole: Okay. Do you- last question. Do you have an herb or a plant that you work with the most closely or one that calls out to you the most? 

[30:20] Jimena: Right now, the closest one is the nettle. The nettle is the one that I, like I said, for me, because I had that memory with my mom, because it was like a kind of fun memory to remember my brothers like, just laughing and, and listen, hearing my mom saying, you know,” O, anda a traer la ortiga para ortigarles por que son malcriados,” you know, it’s a nice memory, like when I was in Ecuador. But- and also, I didn’t know that nettle was really good for, for women. You know, it has a lot of iron. I didn’t know that stuff. So for me, like lately, like before my menstruation, like during my, yeah, like PMS, I start drinking nettle, like infusion of nettle and yeah. And also I love the taste. I really love the taste [laughs]. 

[31:28] Nicole: It’s One of my favorite herbs.

[31:31] Jimena: So, yeah. And the first piece that I create for the project, Plantitas Que Hablan, it was with with my mom. So I feel that it has a special part in my heart. Yeah. 

[31:49] Nicole: Great. Well, thank you for sharing. We really appreciate that you shared some of your experiences and your stories, your thoughts about healing and herbalism and herbal healing, these traditions. We believe that one of the ways to preserve and, and share these is to continue to capture people’s voices and share these stories. So we really appreciate that you would share yours with us.

[32:12] Jimena: No, thank you so much, Nicole, for having me here. And yes, that’s, this is a great way to preserve that tradition. And Plantitas Que Hablan, like I told you that that’s the project that also want to preserve, preserve the stories of women, immigrant women, especially immigrant women have really important and nice stories, you know, where they can find joy too and find a good memories when, why they live here. Like my story. Thank you, Nicole. 

[32:51] Nicole: Thank you Jimena.